Merged (edited) General thoughts about Christianity and the bible

[Olmstead]

No, not afraid.
We all need it. IMHO
Not vague to me.
We can't save ourselves. We need help.

But you say you need it. Doesn't that mean that you couldn't handle life without it? Sounds to me like you're afraid.

 

[Myriad]

If a pattern of treating other people badly has led you to a point where you can barely interact with the society you need to thrive (e.g. estrangement, exile, imprisonment) then you might need the power of grace to turn your attitude around and help build a more worthy life.

If Skeletor and his Snake Mountain minions have brought a reign of evil and darkness upon your kingdom then you might need the power of Grayskull to transform into He-Man and wield the Power Sword to defeat them.

So, it all depends on your circumstances.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

As in, from God? Nah, we're doing better by our own ideas. Like,

- is slavery OK? Not for us, but God commands it. (And I mean, not just OT, but Paul endorses it in the NT too.)
- is genocide OK? ditto
- is wartime rape ok? Not for us, but God actually gives instructions on how to kidnap a woman whose parents you just killed, humiliate her, and only then can you force yourself upon her
- is sex with your daughter ok? Well, God doesn't actually command it, but strangely enough, although the OT has a list of forbidden incests, that one is not in the list
- is it ok to punish a rape victim? Not for us, but God actually commands it. (If nobody heard her scream.)
- is it ok to offer your virgin (and at the time meaning most likely pre-teen) daughters to a mob to rape? God actually rewards Lot for exactly that.
- is bestiality ok? Not for us, but according to our best interpretation of Hebrew, God actually commands Adam and Eve to *ahem* know in the biblical sense every animal. (As I keep joking, not sure if Eve or the horse were more happy about that arrangement.)
- is it OK to keep punishing someone for something you've supposedly forgiven? Here's the thing: childbirth pains were a curse placed by God on Eve and her descendants for ever, for the original sin. But every sin is forgiven by Jesus if you believe in him, right? Yet good, devout Christian women still suffer the same pains.
- is it ok to punish people for something that someone else did, and they had no say in? Well, the whole Pharaoh incident is just God doing just that. And the Noah incident too. Or the doctrine that unbaptized babies go to hell. (OK, so for Catholics it's the 'least bad hell' but it still involves fire, according to several scholars and at least one pope. But that's like saying I'll shove the least spiky cactus in my collection up your rear end. Repeatedly.)
- is it ok to order your most devouted fanboy tortured brutally just to see if he still follows you? That's the Job story in a nutshell.
- is it ok to kill his sons and servants, who had nothing to do with it, to see if that breaks him? Yeah, still Job.
- is it ok to kidnap a guy off the street for your party, then tie him up and throw him out helpless in the street at night for not having appropriate clothing? That's actually used by Jesus himself in a parable as the justified thing to do.

Etc. Believe me, as an amateur bible scholar I could go on for several pages.

 

[JayUtah]

No, we don't need faith, the grace of God, the intercession of saints, communion, absolution or any of the made-up nonsense from religion. You say we need grace, and that's only because you've subscribed to a belief system that arbitrarily tells you so. Atheists have no such need.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

I feel you. For example, I often bump my head on the coffin lid when I wake up at sunset

 

[JayUtah]

Tell me more. (I'm Protestant)

If you didn't get the reference, you need to get out more.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Tell me more. (I'm Protestant)

I'm Rational.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

I like Protestants myself. They think the Bible is literal. It makes it so much easier, since I can bring the whole OT to bear

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

If you didn't get the reference, you need to get out more.

But! "Getting out" implies the danger of encountering "Other Opinons", which must be avoided to prevent "Damnation!"

I like Protestants myself. They think the Bible is literal. It makes it so much easier, since I can bring the whole OT to bear

Didn't know that. I disregarded religion from age six. That's when I was thrown out of Sunday School for asking awkward questions.

 

[JayUtah]

I'm pretty sure this doesn't bother God.

God botherer - Wiktionary, the free dictionary

en.wiktionary.org

But sure bothers you. How come?
Did I hit a nerve?

Not in so many words, but thanks for suggesting that you're just here to annoy people. Witnessing to anyone who isn't interested in your religion is annoying. It's not a virtue. It doesn't make anyone want to learn more about your religion. It doesn't give people a good impression of the kinds of folks who believe in God. People who do that tend not only to be intellectual simpletons but also socially tone-deaf.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

Didn't know that. I disregarded religion from age six. That's when I was thrown out of Sunday School for asking awkward questions.

As I keep saying, the difference is that Catholics believe the Bible is metaphorical... except for the parts they want to be literally true, while Protestants think it's literal and the accurate word of God... except for the parts they want to be metaphorical

 

[Darat]

If a pattern of treating other people badly has led you to a point where you can barely interact with the society you need to thrive (e.g. estrangement, exile, imprisonment) then you might need the power of grace to turn your attitude around and help build a more worthy life.

If Skeletor and his Snake Mountain minions have brought a reign of evil and darkness upon your kingdom then you might need the power of Grayskull to transform into He-Man and wield the Power Sword to defeat them.
So, it all depends on your circumstances.

Spoilers - some of us haven't seen it yet!

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Is humankind lost without God?

What is grace and are we in need of it?

It is by grace you are saved and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, so that no one can boast.

Should we extend grace to others even if we don't believe in God?

BS

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

It was good at first but they really should have ended it after about


Spoilers - some of us haven't seen it yet!

Man, then you'll really hate it when a priest or missionary spoils for you what happens to Jesus at the end of the gospels

 

[Little 10 Toes]

Is humankind lost without God?

What is grace and are we in need of it?

It is by grace you are saved and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, so that no one can boast.

Should we extend grace to others even if we don't believe in God?

Good to know that you "changed sides" and now are part of the "we don't believe in God" team.

 

[Dave Rogers]

The analogy of dental care would work here.
Which dentist would you trust?
1) The whole asked you to open your mouth, took a look around and said you were fine. Or...
2) The dentist that took x-rays and gave you a thorough exam?

I just had another thought about this, relating to Rusty's bizarre level of ignorance about, seemingly, every facet of life:

Rusty, do you have to have x-rays every time you go to the dentist? Normal dental checkups only require a careful examination, not x-rays, which are only needed to investigate an already detected problem. Are your teeth seriously that bad?

Dave

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

As I keep saying, the difference is that Catholics believe the Bible is metaphorical... except for the parts they want to be literally true, while Protestants think it's literal and the accurate word of God... except for the parts they want to be metaphorical

And both groups purport to believe in what is patently a ridiculous idea.

 

[8enotto]

If the crew that works with Time Team did the ground penetrating radar with decades of experience behind them. And knew how to read the results I give it more credence. But still they give room for errors due to something unexpected.

Or Ron Wyatt and his ilk renting whatever GPR equipment while in Turkey with minimal instruction and going to a particular site with a specific goal in mind.
They want to find it. Like they found everything else they sought, without fail.
No possible error, just positive results. Amazing!

 

[I Am The Scum]

A life of passing up Seinfeld references is a life not worth living.

 

[Darat]

I like Protestants myself. They think the Bible is literal. It makes it so much easier, since I can bring the whole OT to bear

Not really it is that they give precedent to the bible and not to the church. My lot - classed as protestant sect - would have laughed at anyone who thought genesis was an account of god's actual creation of everything. Albeit in Sunday School we were just presented with it as a story.