Ed Israel/US Attacks Iran /Yet Another Country/Iran

[Andy_Ross]

US is bombing Iran tonight

US and Iran exchange fire after American patrol helicopter downed in Hormuz

President Donald Trump earlier accused Iran of shooting down the US helicopter over the Strait of Hormuz and vowed to respond.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Beelzebuddy]

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

Most plausibly... starving Russia and China of oil, thus reducing the ability of two hostile aggressor nations to wage large scale war. It's not very nice to starve your enemies and destroy their economies, but potentially quite effective.

Also likely to be the most effective way to prevent another world war.

Neither was a stated goal by the US, if anything they were tacked on when it became clear that the short victorious war was dragging on.
And again, both are failing.
China can still import trough the other borders of Iran, and Russian oil exporting capacity is only being impacted by Ukraine, which the US is actively trying to hinder.

 

[llwyd]

I think the fact that people here are arguing against Iran being the victor is in itself a pretty clear indicator that things have not gone very swimmingly for the USA... I mean you didn't hear such things after the attacks against Iraq and Afghanistan - no-one in their right mind could have argued that those countries would have somehow won. Now you can coherently make this very argument for Iran.

Anyway, to me it looks like a stalemate, Iran has the Hormuz closed and the USA is very reluctant to use the necessary force to open it, hence these endless "negotiations" - of which the leaked information looks rather positive for this (cut throat and barbaric) Iranian regime. So, well, if this is "winning" it's a very new kind of winning...

 

[The Great Zaganza]

There is nothing the US can do to remove the threat to shipping posed by Iran.
Nothing.
It would require an invasion of a much larger scale an Iraq to achieve that, and it would take months or years.
And everyone knows that the US will never do that.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Iran launching counter-strikes on US bases in the region.
Might be perfunctory, as they have already destroyed most of them, forcing US personnel to hide in civilian hotels and wage the war from there (yes, that is illegal).

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

I think the fact that people here are arguing against Iran being the victor is in itself a pretty clear indicator that things have not gone very swimmingly for the USA... I mean you didn't hear such things after the attacks against Iraq and Afghanistan - no-one in their right mind could have argued that those countries would have somehow won. Now you can coherently make this very argument for Iran.

Anyway, to me it looks like a stalemate, Iran has the Hormuz closed and the USA is very reluctant to use the necessary force to open it, hence these endless "negotiations" - of which the leaked information looks rather positive for this (cut throat and barbaric) Iranian regime. So, well, if this is "winning" it's a very new kind of winning...

The thing is, Iraq and Afghanistan did not 'win', but the US still lost.
Iraq is a pretty much failed state at the moment, and not an obedient US puppet and Afghanistan is worse off than it was before the US invaded and home to a terrorist regime even more opposed to the US than it was before.
And this war looks to be a repeat of that pattern.

 

[EHocking]

And how much oil were they exporting before the war? How much was China buying?

The point was that the US has been ineffectual (perhaps even deliberately so?) in stopping sales to China.
And of course allowed a whole lot to be sold to Russia as well.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

Not to mention that the Trump regime has relaxed sanctions on nations buying Russian oil, so rather than weakening Russia, this war is saving it's economy.

 

[dirtywick]

Neither was a stated goal by the US, if anything they were tacked on when it became clear that the short victorious war was dragging on.
And again, both are failing.
China can still import trough the other borders of Iran, and Russian oil exporting capacity is only being impacted by Ukraine, which the US is actively trying to hinder.

tacked on? more like desperate flailing to try and justify any of this in even the smallest way lol

the chinese have been divesting themselves from anything that can be effected by us sanctions for years. they're in a much better position to weather an oil based energy disruption than the united states is, who is actively sabotaging it's own efforts to diversify it's energy needs off of fossil fuels.

 

[llwyd]

The thing is, Iraq and Afghanistan did not 'win', but the US still lost.
Iraq is a pretty much failed state at the moment, and not an obedient US puppet and Afghanistan is worse off than it was before the US invaded and home to a terrorist regime even more opposed to the US than it was before.
And this war looks to be a repeat of that pattern.

Yeah, but at least there was the initial crushing victory over the opposing armed forces and and a full regime change plus an occupation of those countries - the US won the actual war but then lost the occupation, or the will to continue an increasingly costly and pointless occupation. Now with Iran there is not even that initial triumph, just an early stalemate and the prospect of a pretty humiliating concessions in the negotiations.

 

[Ziggurat]

The point was that the US has been ineffectual (perhaps even deliberately so?) in stopping sales to China.

We never needed to.

And of course allowed a whole lot to be sold to Russia as well.

You might want to re-read that sentence.

 

[Ziggurat]

the chinese have been divesting themselves from anything that can be effected by us sanctions for years. they're in a much better position to weather an oil based energy disruption than the united states is, who is actively sabotaging it's own efforts to diversify it's energy needs off of fossil fuels.

Yeah, no. China is heavily dependent on oil imports, and that isn't changing. The US is not.

 

[Andy_Ross]

The point was that the US has been ineffectual (perhaps even deliberately so?) in stopping sales to China.
And of course allowed a whole lot to be sold to Russia as well.

Donald has invited China to buy oil from the USA on a number of occasions.

 

[Andy_Ross]

The most successful blockade in the history of Naval Warfare!

Praise be to Allah!

Donald J. Trump
@realDonald Trump
The Fake News Media refuses to report how EFFECTIVE the U.S. Naval BLOCKADE is, the most successful Blockade in the history of Naval Warfare. NOTHING GETS THROUGH unless we want it to. IT IS A STEEL WALL! Iran is doing ZERO business, not paying their military, or any of their bills, and quickly becoming a FAILED NATION! Lots of oil is getting out. Praise be to Allah! President DONALD J. TRUMP

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

The most successful blockade in the history of Naval Warfare!

Praise be to Allah!

Donald J. Trump
@realDonald Trump
The Fake News Media refuses to report how EFFECTIVE the U.S. Naval BLOCKADE is, the most successful Blockade in the history of Naval Warfare. NOTHING GETS THROUGH unless we want it to. IT IS A STEEL WALL! Iran is doing ZERO business, not paying their military, or any of their bills, and quickly becoming a FAILED NATION! Lots of oil is getting out. Praise be to Allah! President DONALD J. TRUMP

Would this be the same mystery oil that streams out of Venezuela, that somehow never seems to reach any country but Trump's imagination?

 

[carlosy]

The most successful blockade in the history of Naval Warfare!

Praise be to Allah!

Donald J. Trump
@realDonald Trump
The Fake News Media refuses to report how EFFECTIVE the U.S. Naval BLOCKADE is, the most successful Blockade in the history of Naval Warfare. NOTHING GETS THROUGH unless we want it to. IT IS A STEEL WALL! Iran is doing ZERO business, not paying their military, or any of their bills, and quickly becoming a FAILED NATION! Lots of oil is getting out. Praise be to Allah! President DONALD J. TRUMP

Back then it was Comical Ali



Now we are stuck with Comical Donnie..

 

[Beelzebuddy]

Praise be to Allah!

There has to be someone with side bets on polymarket writing this for him. "Will the President say 'Baba Booey'" kind of crap.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

He might be just saying it to annoy Tucker Carlson

 

[Jack by the hedge]

... Also likely to be the most effective way to prevent another world war.

Preventing the other guy from getting oil is what got the US into WW2.