Merged (edited) General thoughts about Christianity and the bible

[Rusty Tyler]

Rusty Tyler said:
Would you treat any other ancient book that way?
Attacking the Bible seems to have an agenda behind it.

No.

Having been brought up in one of the many flavours of christianity, attending Sunday school and church for many years, having a qualification in religious education to boot, I happen to know more about the bible, especially the christian bits, than I do about the Koran or any other religion's texts, so it is easier for me to critique the bible.

That and living in a nominally christian country, which has an established church and allows religionistas to play a part in making our laws.

So, what's your agenda?

 

[Darat]

Rusty Tyler said:
Would you treat any other ancient book that way?
Attacking the Bible seems to have an agenda behind it.

So, what's your agenda?

Understanding what is real.

 

[Rusty Tyler]

So? Does this mean that his writings were true? Why believe any of Paul's writings? Half of which were very likely not written by him.

Likely not written by him? How did you arrive at that conclusion?

 

[Mojo]

Rusty Tyler said:
Would you treat any other ancient book that way?
Attacking the Bible seems to have an agenda behind it.

So, what's your agenda?

We want you to imagine that you're being persecuted, because it gives you a warm, fuzzy feeling.

 

[Rusty Tyler]

You are unaware of the fraudulent letters?

Of the thirteen letters six were not written by him.

ETA: Couldn't remember what they are called so looked it up - do a search on "deutero-Pauline" if you are genuinely interested in learning which letters weren't by Paul.

Wouldn't that have been sorted out when they assembled the canon of scriptures?

 

[Rusty Tyler]

My gut doesn't know that I'm running for my life.

If you were there you would be completely aware of the danger.

 

[Rusty Tyler]

Which work includes a god that makes people eat their own children as his punishment?

Agree.
That is a problem.
The old testament God and the new testament God seem to be two different entities.

 

[Carrot Flower King]

Rusty Tyler said:
Would you treat any other ancient book that way?
Attacking the Bible seems to have an agenda behind it.

So, what's your agenda?

I don't have an agenda.

I tend not to even think about the bible, christianity and the rest until religionistas insist on inserting themselves into my life, my eyes or my ears, which can be quite frequently for some of the reasons I gave above, but also because of the rise of right wing "christian" nationalism which is becoming increasingly voluble over here.

I don't like folk trying to influence laws and other things affecting my life on the basis of a bunch of middle eastern bronze age myths (nor any other myths, but those are the more prevalent ones here).

 

[acbytesla]

Would you treat any other ancient book that way?
Attacking the Bible seems to have an agenda behind it.

Psychological defense mechanism. Attacking our motive because you won't address the issues with your own epistemology.

The Bible is an anthology of writings. Usually books by an unknown number of mostly anonymous authors. The ancient equivalent of fan fiction. There were other Gospels. Why aren't they in the Bible? The first canon of the Bible only included most of Luke and no other Gospels. And almost none of the Old Testament. Why aren't you using Marcion's Bible?

 

[zooterkin]

Where did Mary and Joseph come from?

First show they existed at all.

 

[Carrot Flower King]

If you were there you would be completely aware of the danger.

But Mojo's gut wouldn't...

 

[acbytesla]

Likely not written by him? How did you arrive at that conclusion?

Biblical scholars widely agree that Paul wrote seven of the thirteen letters attributed to him, while the remaining six (or seven, including Hebrews) are considered "pseudepigraphical" (written by followers in his name).

The books likely not written by Paul are categorized below by the strength of the scholarly consensus.

Near Consensus (Highly Unlikely to be Paul)These letters reflect church structures, vocabularies, and theological situations that developed a generation or more after Paul's death.1 Timothy2 TimothyTitus Ephesians

Highly Disputed (Scholarly Opinion is Divided) Most modern scholars suspect these were written by the "Pauline School" after his lifetime to adapt his teachings, though some minority defenses for his authorship still exist.Colossians2 Thessalonians

Anonymous (Traditionally Attributed to Paul)Hebrews: The text is strictly anonymous (it does not claim to be from Paul). Early church fathers, such as Origen, rejected Pauline authorship, and modern scholars widely agree he did not write it.

The Authentic Letters (Undisputed)To provide a baseline for comparison, virtually all critical scholars agree that Paul did write the following core letters:Romans1 & 2 CorinthiansGalatiansPhilippians1 ThessaloniansPhilemon

You can explore the historical and textual evidence in depth on Wikipedia's Authorship of the Pauline Epistles or learn more about the methodology from Catholic Resources' Deutero-Pauline Letters page.

 

[Mojo]

Rusty Tyler said:
Would you treat any other ancient book that way?
Attacking the Bible seems to have an agenda behind it.

So, what's your agenda?

you have arrived on the forum quoting the Bible, and even starting a thread about it, and now you think people have an "agenda" because they're discussing the Bible?

 

[Pixel42]

That's convenient.

That's reality. Some people find proven facts inconvenient, but that's no excuse to ignore them. Ignorance is sometimes excusable, but willful ignorance never is.

 

[Mojo]

Would you treat any other ancient book that way?
Attacking the Bible seems to have an agenda behind it.

The Bible is the ancient book you have introduced into the discussion. That's why it's being discussed here. No "agenda" is needed to explain this.

 

[Rusty Tyler]

I don't have an agenda.

Really?

I tend not to even think about the bible, christianity and the rest until religionistas insist on inserting themselves into my life, my eyes or my ears, which can be quite frequently for some of the reasons I gave above, but also because of the rise of right wing "christian" nationalism which is becoming increasingly voluble over here.

Interesting how politics effects religion.

I have an agnostic friend that I think avoids Christianity because of politics.
Which I understand. Who wants to be a Christian? It comes with a LOT of baggage.

 

[Rusty Tyler]

Psychological defense mechanism. Attacking our motive because you won't address the issues with your own epistemology.

The Bible is an anthology of writings. Usually books by an unknown number of mostly anonymous authors. The ancient equivalent of fan fiction. There were other Gospels. Why aren't they in the Bible? The first canon of the Bible only included most of Luke and no other Gospels. And almost none of the Old Testament. Why aren't you using Marcion's Bible?

You seem uninformed about the assembly of the canon.

 

[Helen]

Would you treat any other ancient book that way?
Attacking the Bible seems to have an agenda behind it.

Yes, I would treat any other ancient book that way, if someone told me that everything in it was true, and that I must follow all its rules, or be punished. I enjoy a lot of ancient books, including parts of the bible, I like fiction and love mythology, but if someone claims they are true, I want evidence.

 

[Rusty Tyler]

First show they existed at all.

How would I do that?
Why would you discount the biblical account?

 

[Rusty Tyler]

But Mojo's gut wouldn't...

Hogwash.
You're being chased by a bear. Hello?