Merged (edited) General thoughts about Christianity and the bible

[Helen]

That's an interesting point.

I would say that God created the original humans.
And humans have been making humans ever since.
Bad seed produces bad plants.

We can't really blame God for our badness.
And He expects us to strive for better.

How convenient.

 

[Rusty Tyler]

The gospels were unlikely to have been written by the people whose names they bear. The attribution to the authors came quite a bit after all the people who might have known Jesus personally were dead.

Agree.
The gospel was originally an oral tradition. Eventually it was written down based on the eye-witness accounts.

The Quran came about in a similar way. Mohammad couldn't write.

 

[Helen]

So not written by eyewitnesses.

 

[Thermal]

Potters make toilets for others, not themselves.

I'd be kinda pissed if I needed a toilet and kept having to say "nope, can't use this one either, I made it". Do they have to like contract out to other potters for their own potties?

 

[Darat]

In terms of mythology, I wonder about the early Genesis account. (creation, the Flood)
Other than that, mostly historic. (especially the New Testament) The synoptic Gospels are a bit sketchy though. (as presented, obvious copying) ???

Evidence?

 

[Darat]

Agree.
The gospel was originally an oral tradition. Eventually it was written down
based on the eye-witness accounts.
The Quran came about in a similar way. Mohammad couldn't write.

Where do you get knowledge of this from?

 

[Lithrael]

So why are you asking for concrete evidence?
Those with faith are satisfied with THEIR evidence.
You have to go find your own.

This is so funny. You came in here sellin sandwiches and when people say 'Why should I want these, what's in these sandwiches' you're like 'Why would you ask that? Other people like these sandwiches. If you're not satisfied, make your own.'

It's a staple of sketch comedy to have a traveling sales person barge in just to have really odd/no ideas of how to sell their wares.

 

[Darat]

So not written by eyewitnesses.

Precisely. Whoever wrote the gospels, even the older sections were not eyewitnesses, never mind the copying of each others' homework, and additions that were being added into the 5th century, for example the "whoever is without sin throw the first stone.... splat....Mother how many times do I have to tell you?!" story is a 5th century addition. It's only by the 5th century that the canon was set, we could have ended up with a lot of other books that the early Christians accepted as gospel as the official gospels. And Revelation only just made it into the canon, which we should be grateful for as so many good horror books and movies have come from that book. Plus then you have the dropping of some of the books by the protestant sects - for very sound theological reasons: dropping the books made the bible cheaper to print. As with all crime syndicates - follow the money.

 

[Darat]

I agree that this is bigger than Christianity. It came way before that.
Eating from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was the source. (mythologically speaking?)
Was it an actual tree or an explanation of the conscience?

Genesis is multiple stories smashed together, it's an etiological myth.

 

[JayUtah]

How convenient.

And how Augustinian.

 

[Darat]

The goal would be correction, restoration and redemption.


Those are good questions.
The "god thingie" gave you a free will. You need to be accountable for what you did with that.
Will He agree that you lived your life the way He meant for you to live it?

And you can't blame Him for what you CHOSE not to believe. That's on you.

That's an interesting take - I see why some Christians may have problems with your beliefs the standard Christian god is all powerful and all knowing not the limited god you subscribe to.

 

[catsmate]

And if you ever meet one, the odds are that they're not the one you decided was the only one that exists. I hope for your sake they've got a sense of humour too.

Dave

Ph’nglui mglw’nafh Cthulhu R’lyeh wgah’nagl fhtagn.

 

[Thermal]

That's an interesting take - I see why some Christians may have problems with your beliefs the standard Christian god is all powerful and all knowing not the limited god you subscribe to.

Oh snap- Big D made a blackout post!

Your second quote of Mr Tyler is blacked out, if you want to take notes on whether you did anything unusual.

[/OT]

 

[Darat]

The Tree is tricky. I'm taking it as a given that it was allegorical, as I take virtually all of the Old Testement.

So what is the Knowledge of Good and Evil? Ethics and morality, +/-, yeah? So God ordered his creation to not have knowledge of what was good (the other part that gets soft pedaled)? Why would God not want his creation to know about good and evil? Seems like an important thing to know?

Only when removed from the historical context. Trees with fruits of immortality were all over the place, it was probably difficult to have a walk without bumping into trees which granted prizes (please note we reserve the right to substitute an alternate prize). The snake being a naughty boy was a well established trope in the region from when we first have written records. Him depriving humans of immortality was the norm. I imagine people at the time just raised their eyebrows and went "bloody snake he's at it again" and got on with their daily life.

 

[Thermal]

Probably said already, but: yes, I think you can be a metaphorical Christian without being a legalistic literal one, and remain intellectually honest and consistent.

 

[JayUtah]

Eventually it was written down based on the eye-witness accounts.

How do you know that?

 

[Thermal]

Only when removed from the historical context. Trees with fruits of immortality were all over the place, it was probably difficult to have a walk without bumping into trees which granted prizes (please note we reserve the right to substitute an alternate prize). The snake being a naughty boy was a well established trope in the region from when we first have written records. Him depriving humans of immortality was the norm. I imagine people at the time just raised their eyebrows and went "bloody snake he's at it again" and got on with their daily life.

IIRC, the 'serpent' was not turned into what we now know as a snake till afterwards, as a punishment. When doing the initial tempting, he was... something else? Presumably humanish, because other animals were not credited as chatty?

 

[Darat]

...snip....

Creating someone, playing games with them, and then "correcting" thrm for failing to follow the rules they weren't told about? Sociopath.

I have in fact lived my life to the best of my ability. I have done some good, and not that much bad - the very notion that I should be judged by someone i have no relationship with, is both arrogant and condescending.

A much better gospel that seems to fit the god that appears in the bible:


Well worth watching all the books in that bible.

 

[Pixel42]

I would say that God created the original humans.

I would say that millions of years of evolution by natural selection created the original humans.

 

[Mojo]

The new testament is mostly eye-witness accounts in the gospels (supposedly) and letter sent to the churches.
Why would you question it as historic? Just to go with the popular dismissal of the Bible?

The gospels include stuff that didn't happen, for example the census in Like 2.