Merged (edited) General thoughts about Christianity and the bible

[Rusty Tyler]

The Christian God doesn't do a very good job of letting it's worshipers know what it really wants.

Have you heard of the Law of Moses? - LOL

 

[Darat]

No? The Christian God said "you can eat the fruit from any tree you like apart from that special tree over there" and then acted all shocked at the result.

Not only that he lied about it.

 

[Rusty Tyler]

The “word of God” is short. The “word of humans trying to explain the word of God” is endless.

If divine clarity were self‑evident, you wouldn’t need:

councils
creeds
scholasticism
apologetics
counter‑apologetics
reformations
counter‑reformations
centuries of “No, what God really meant was…”

Agree.

Therefore, your input to the debate is just a continuation of such and not something unusual and probably not that important.

Disagree.

 

[Rusty Tyler]

And yet yesterday you claimed that:

I don't see a conflict there.

I don't trash the whole book because of some issues I have with it.
Nor do I trash all the historical figures named therein.

 

[Mojo]

How do you know that what you are doing is any of those things?

There's an entire branch of philosophy devoted to this. We don't need to outsource it.

 

[Mojo]

I don't see a conflict there.

I don't trash the whole book because of some issues I have with it.
Nor do I trash all the historical figures named therein.

I don't trash any of the book. I just regard it as mythology.

 

[theprestige]

Have you heard of the Law of Moses? - LOL

If it's so clear to you, then why the questions in the OP?

 

[Rusty Tyler]

I don't trash any of the book. I just regard it as mythology.

In terms of mythology, I wonder about the early Genesis account. (creation, the Flood)
Other than that, mostly historic. (especially the New Testament)
The synoptic Gospels are a bit sketchy though. (as presented, obvious copying) ???

 

[Rusty Tyler]

If it's so clear to you, then why the questions in the OP?

Christians aren't under the Law of Moses. (to be clear)

I have reasonable clarity in my own mind. (we don't know everything)
Other Christians claim that I have crossed a line and have lost my way.

I'm curious about your views on that.

One thing I notice here.
Folks tend to pick a view that they believe and discount all others.
I expected a bit more open-mindedness.

 

[Rusty Tyler]

Why? What do you think would happen?

As I understand it, there will be a Day (age) of accountability at the end of this earthly existence.
Each nation, leader (both government and religious) and individual will have to face evaluation while the rest of creation looks on.
Imagine an interview like that where you cannot lie. (and get away with it)

 

[Rusty Tyler]

I'm not comparing them to Christian standards

I agree that this is bigger than Christianity. It came way before that.
Eating from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was the source. (mythologically speaking?)
Was it an actual tree or an explanation of the conscience?

 

[Mojo]

I expected a bit more open-mindedness.

Well, you're the person who claims that they "just know" things.

How about presenting some actual evidence to support your assertions?

 

[Helen]

But if there is the kind of omni- god thingie that you believe in, then that god thingie made me who i am, so why would it judge me? I have lived my life the way they meant for me to live it, in that case. And as for accountability, shouldn't it be accountable to me, if it made me, and decided that I would not believe in it?

Not very logical, this god thingie of yours. Also, if this judginess is to be looked upon as a spectacle, then the god thingie is a sociopath.

 

[Helen]

In terms of mythology, I wonder about the early Genesis account. (creation, the Flood)
Other than that, mostly historic. (especially the New Testament)
The synoptic Gospels are a bit sketchy though. (as presented, obvious copying) ???

Mostly historic? Really?

 

[Rusty Tyler]

Well, you're the person who claims that they "just know" things.

How about presenting some actual evidence to support your assertions?

What are my options?
How do I explain to you my gut reaction, or my spiritual discernment?

The Holy Spirit lives inside of me. But I don't expect you to believe that.
Nor can I explain it rationally. Except for the transforming effect it has had.
Which you can easily explain away.

 

[Rusty Tyler]

Mostly historic? Really?

The new testament is mostly eye-witness accounts in the gospels (supposedly) and letter sent to the churches.
Why would you question it as historic? Just to go with the popular dismissal of the Bible?

 

[P.J. Denyer]

No? The Christian God said "you can eat the fruit from any tree you like apart from that special tree over there" and then acted all shocked at the result.

A test with no win condition and no end point, since at that point A&E were supposedly immortal. The game will continue until you lose.

 

[Rusty Tyler]

Not very logical, this god thingie of yours. Also, if this judginess is to be looked upon as a spectacle, then the god thingie is a sociopath.

The goal would be correction, restoration and redemption.

But if there is the kind of omni- god thingie that you believe in, then that god thingie made me who i am, so why would it judge me? I have lived my life the way they meant for me to live it, in that case. And as for accountability, shouldn't it be accountable to me, if it made me, and decided that I would not believe in it?

Those are good questions.
The "god thingie" gave you a free will. You need to be accountable for what you did with that.
Will He agree that you lived your life the way He meant for you to live it?
And you can't blame Him for what you CHOSE not to believe. That's on you.

 

[Rusty Tyler]

A test with no win condition and no end point, since at that point A&E were supposedly immortal. The game will continue until you lose.

I see problems with the account of the Fall as well.

- Did Adam really understand the consequences? (death)
- Why put the tree in the CENTER of the garden? (orchard)
- Adam messed up his explanation to Eve. Don't touch?
- A&E had to be deceived into eating thereof. They had no intention of eating.
- They DIDN'T die (physically) in the day they ate thereof.
- The consequences went WAY beyond what was originally stated.

 

[Thermal]

I agree that this is bigger than Christianity. It came way before that.
Eating from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was the source. (mythologically speaking?)
Was it an actual tree or an explanation of the conscience?

The Tree is tricky. I'm taking it as a given that it was allegorical, as I take virtually all of the Old Testement.

So what is the Knowledge of Good and Evil? Ethics and morality, +/-, yeah? So God ordered his creation to not have knowledge of what was good (the other part that gets soft pedaled)? Why would God not want his creation to know about good and evil? Seems like an important thing to know?