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Are all mediums con artists then?

Ian said:
I watched the programmes. I can't give a definitive statement that cheating wasn't going on, obviously. But no way could they have produced what they did by guessing. Now I am not interested in debating the bleeding obvious. Go and preach to your fellow skeptics because they're the only ones who will be interested in hearing such absurdities. The rest of the human race will simply move on, accept the reality of this phenomena, and ask themselves what the implications are for what it implies about human beings and our ultimate relationship to reality (well, at least the intelligent ones will).
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Oh please. If there was any reality to the phenomena, the world would be a different place. Most people realize this, which is why they move on, yawning all the way. They may mutter something about believing in psychics talking to dead people, but it makes no practical difference to them at all.

Anyone who draws any conclusions from an edited TV show should take a tour of a TV studio sometime.

~~ Paul
 
Mercutio said:
I hope you meant "prey"; I have too many friends who sincerely pray in situations like this.
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oopsy cold medicine!

Though it's sad how something as sacred as an afterlife to so many people can be twisted and manipulated by these psychics. I loved Sylvia Browne saying that there are no skunks in heaven. What did skunks do? I could at least see some sort of biblical tie in for no snakes in heaven.
 
In response to the original question posed by this thread: the answer is YES.

There is very little else to say except possibly that in some cases the "medium" is conning themselves (i.e. self delusional) as well as the general public.
 
Interesting Ian said:
And how many 1 in 5's should we ignore before you would come to the conclusion that something interesting is happening.
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Actually, quite a few. The majority of the JREF tests have a chance of something like one in a million of being right by chance. (Statistics buffs, correct me if I'm wrong.) The reason for this is simple- many psychics claim "Psychic power works sometimes but not others," to cover up failed trials. However, using that same logic, I could say "I can predict the outcome of a coin flip, but my powers only work about half the time."

Now, if an ability actually exists, it should be able to test positively consistently. Psychics are incredibly inconsistent- look at how many failed predictions there are (if you want some examples, the members of this forum would be happy to give some.)

I also have to note that your reliance on TV shows is misled- while the psychics do often rely on guesswork, they also do "hot" readings- they have researched the audience members before they do the show or have even talked to a few of them in between tapings. Also, consider that each episode of "Crossing Over" takes two hours to film, but is shown as only one half hour- which means that an hour and a half of wrong guesses is cut out.

Also realize that these television psychics, while they have no problem getting paid for going on television, never apply for the Million Dollar Challenge- because their abilities cannot stand up under a fair test.

Edit- typo.
 
Interesting Ian said:
...Now I am not interested in debating the bleeding obvious. Go and preach to your fellow skeptics because they're the only ones who will be interested in hearing such absurdities. The rest of the human race will simply move on, accept the reality of this phenomena, and ask themselves what the implications are for what it implies about human beings and our ultimate relationship to reality (well, at least the intelligent ones will).
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What a stupid twat you are. And it's "these phenomena" or "this phenomenon"" you illiterate twit.
 
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jimtron said:
I was quite surprised to find many who apparently really believe in this stuff on a mentalism forum of all places. Some of these folks know all about mentalist tricks and cold reading, but also believe in ESP.
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I can't believe you didn't also link to some of the remote viewing threads -- pages and pages of debate on the genuineness of the remote viewing phenomenon, among people who specialize in knowing how to fake it. Talk about surreal. Along with the arguing, there were a few "demonstrations" of various users' remote viewing skills, some of which were quite good as forum-based performances go.
 
Ian must know -or have seen-a genuine medium/psychic to know the phenomena is real,yet in my time on the forum he doesn't appear to be any closer in naming them.Why?
 
Interesting Ian said:
I haven't kept the programmes so am unable to provide details now.
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I missed the first, but I have all the rest in mpg format, I'd be happy to burn a DVD or 2 and send them to you so you can review them and provide the specific points.
 
If this goes according to previous discussions Ian's had on this topic, he will continue to insist there's evidence while failing to supply any evidence. After a short while of repeating that it was impossible to get such accurate information (for which he supplies no evidence) or he will chose one of two options:

At the end he will either (a) try and change the subject to something more philosphical or (b) say he finds the whole thing boring and stop posting.

Ho hum.
 
I predict that in the future you will die.

That will be £50 please.
 
Originally posted by Interesting Ian
And how many 1 in 5's should we ignore before you would come to the conclusion that something interesting is happening.
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A 1 in 5 chance is just that! Repeated a million times its still 1 in 5(not the same test obviously)chance.Isn't it?
 
cabby said:
I used to believe I had psychic abilities. I gave tarot readings (for free), and I consulted my spirit guide, and heard my (dead) grandmother speak to me when meditating once.

So, I would not consider the old me to be a con artist - I was not intentionally deceiving people. I honestly believed I was given the ability to interpret signs, and that I was using it for good. So I believed I was genuine, and so did plenty of other people.

However, even as I did all this, I constantly came up with questions about what I was doing, and how I managed to do it. Why could I only get instinctive flashes about things? Why could I not use this 'power' when I concentrated hard on something important? What about the times I was wrong (although they were freakishly few - even looking back as a hardened skeptic) - what happened then?

I soon realised that I was very good at picking up subliminal signals from people, or noticing things in the distance. My specialty was knowing when a driver was about to turn suddenly, or not turn where they signalled to. I could read the traffic around me uncannily. I tested myself on what external information I could possibly have noticed, and realised I am more of an expert on body language, or verbal subtleties than most.

I suffered some severe abuse from new agers and 'healers' over several years, but without this I still had a questioning nature and would have arrived where I am now anyway. The fact that others in my niche did not have any patience for my curiousness, and did not ask the same things of themselves is what finally made me take that final scary step out of the new age community. Otherwise I would still be living in la-la- land, and believing things about how my inquisitive nature was denying me an easy path in life, or my injuries and years of incredible bad fortune must be something I deserved, whether from something I had done in this life, or in another.

There are no genuine mediums. There are people with genuine intentions, but not psychic powers. There are people who could be helpful if you were discussing difficult choices you needed to make, but some friends can do that for you without the mumbo jumbo. It's a matter of reading, yes, but not reading cards, or signs, or what spirits show you - it's a matter of reading the environment and the person before you.

And then there are the con artists who read the newspapers, audience listings, area information, web sites, etc to glean what they need - as well as reading the people around them.
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:clap: NOMINATED!!
 
cabby said:
Why don't you try it out?

I think you will find that your message will not be repeated back to you, unless you feed the 'psychic' some clues, or give them leeway on their responses to you.
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I intend to, i'm due to see a medium for a one on one in a few weeks time so i'll let you know what happens.
 
Ersby said:
If this goes according to previous discussions Ian's had on this topic, he will continue to insist there's evidence while failing to supply any evidence. After a short while of repeating that it was impossible to get such accurate information (for which he supplies no evidence) or he will chose one of two options:

At the end he will either (a) try and change the subject to something more philosphical or (b) say he finds the whole thing boring and stop posting.

Ho hum.
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You forgot C: Declare that no one can understand his points, much less refute him, everyone on Earth that doesn't accept his obvious genius is a blathering idiot, and that he will go on to happily live in PsychiSuperMetaPhysiLand while we all wallow in the mud.

Wait, nevermind, he's already done C, hasn't he?
 
Interesting Ian said:
I watched all the programmes in full.
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Ian, have you ever heard of the word 'editing?' Those television programmes were not shown live. They were pre-recorded, and as such, you have no idea what was edited out, or how scenes were clipped and re-arranged. The television viewers likely saw less than 25% of the total video footage recorded for the programme. It doesn't matter how carefully you watched it, you cannot draw any valid conclusions from it because you did not see everything. You saw only what the programme's producers chose to show you, in the way they chose to show it to you.

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to argue against your contention that psychic phenomena may exist. I am only arguing that you cannot credibly use that TV programme to support your view.
 
My spirit guides, who are

called "lookforthemainchanceandtakeit and "theresoneborneveryminute"

tell me I have a propserous future telling people what they want to hear time and time again.
 
Azrael 5 said:
Originally posted by Interesting Ian


A 1 in 5 chance is just that! Repeated a million times its still 1 in 5(not the same test obviously)chance.Isn't it?
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Repeat a 1 in 5 chance twice, the probability of two successes (assuming the trials are independent) is 0.04 (.2 * .2). Repeat it 3 times, the probability of 3 consecutive successes is .008 (.2 * .2 *.2).
 
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