Split Thread DEI in the US

[dirtywick]

Of course there is merit to the idea if we're talking about ideas promulgated by individual actors such as Stephen Miller or the underlying rationale for specific policies such as preferential treatment for Afrikaner refugees. As much as I try to remember the principle of charity^WP it's not easy to come up with anything other than privileging people of European extraction to explain such things.

That said, I don't think Executive Order 14398^WP and the various other orders around DEI can be explained in terms of restoring special privileges to the white majority in the U.S. unless we can make a rational argument that they would foreseeably privilege European Americans over African Ameicans, Asian Americans, Caribbean Americans, etc.

What you seem to want to do here is make the case for DEI by showing that the movement against DEI is rooted in racism, but there isn't any good reason to suppose policies will have good results so long as they have bad opponents. DEI policies stand or fall on their own merits, not on the despicability of their detractors.

just by chance i watched this video that just came out that explains how the billionaires are pushing a social agenda that i think does a good job explaining billionaire media capture and specifically mentions dei as part of the explanation. imo they are also clearly pushing a white supremacist agenda. regardless, it made me think of our conversation

in any case, if you can spare 5 minutes and want to give a listen just from 7:20 to 11:00 i’d love to hear your thoughts

 

[thaiboxerken]

Feels like a strawman but if you say so then (as a skeptic) I'm going to trust you without asking for any quotes where they actually said that.

They rarely say it in explicit terms. They say it in obvious, but implicit ways. For example, why did MAGA claim Kamala Harris was a DEI candidate? They called Karen Bass a DEI hire. When a major bridge in Baltimore collapsed last year Republicans immediately tied the tragedy to DEI simply because Maryland’s port commissioner is a Black woman and Baltimore’s mayor, Brandon Scott, is a Black man.

So, call yourself a skeptic, but I am skeptical of your claim as you tend to ignore evidence that is widely available and believe the lies of the white supremacists.

 

[d4m10n]

They rarely say it in explicit terms.

So rarely that you have provided exactly zero examples and then changed the subject to non-doctors.

I am skeptical of your claim…

Which claim?

…you tend to ignore evidence that is widely available and believe the lies of believe the lies of the white supremacists.

Which lies in particular? Be specific and provide evidence or else retract your defamatory accusation.

 

[thaiboxerken]

And you seem to not understand that whey MAGA talks about DEI, it is code for minorities and women. DEI-hire is just another slur.

 

[thaiboxerken]

The anti-DEI movement is a white supremacy movement. The lie from MAGA is that it is not.

 

[thaiboxerken]

So rarely that you have provided exactly zero examples and then changed the subject to non-doctors.

Turtles claim is a clarification of what the anti-DEI people are claiming about doctors, and other professions. What is your understanding of the anti-DEI claims?

 

[theprestige]

The DEI movement is a racist, anti-white movement. The lie from progressives is that it is not. The anti-DEI movement is a racial equality movement. The lie from progressives is that it is not.

 

[thaiboxerken]

The DEI movement is a racist, anti-white movement.

Spoken like a true klansman. Good job.

 

[d4m10n]

What is your understanding of the anti-DEI claims?

Good question, but you cannot seriously expect me to continue to engage with you in good faith until you retract the claim that I personally "believe the lies of the white supremacists," or else demonstrate your accusation to be true. Retraction would be easier and faster, but I expect you will double down on your accusation while producing zero quotes to back it up.

 

[Trausti]

The DEI movement is a racist, anti-white movement. The lie from progressives is that it is not. The anti-DEI movement is a racial equality movement. The lie from progressives is that it is not.

Reminds me of this.

If you have always believed that everyone should play by the same rules and be judged by the same standards, that would have gotten you labeled a radical 60 years ago, a liberal 30 years ago and a racist today. - Thomas Sowell.

 

[thaiboxerken]

So you don't believe their lies then? ok

 

[Trausti]

So you don't believe their lies then? ok

I think lies come from the pro-DEI crowd. Question: is it acceptable for a Black person to say "it's okay to be Black"? Is it okay for a White person to say "it's okay to be White"? Racial equality would say that both statements are acceptable. What would the DEI view be?

 

[jt512]

The DEI movement is a racist, anti-white movement. The lie from progressives is that it is not. The anti-DEI movement is a racial equality movement. The lie from progressives is that it is not.

That is so precise and concise that I plan to steal it.

 

[arthwollipot]

Thomas Sowell

Who? And why should I care what some guy said?

 

[Trausti]

Who? And why should I care what some guy said?

If you don't know who he is, then you really have little understanding on how conservatives actually think. Would explain alot.

 

[Trausti]

This is DEI.

B.C. man who stabbed, killed girlfriend gets lighter sentence partly due to race

 

[W.D.Clinger]

Who? And why should I care what some guy said?

The Hoover Institution was founded by Herbert Hoover in 1919 (ten years before he became a US President). Its purpose "must be, by its research and publications, to demonstrate the evils of the doctrines of Karl Marx whether Communism, Socialism, economic materialism, or atheism—thus, to protect the American way of life from such ideologies, their conspiracies, and to reaffirm the validity of the American system."

Thomas Sowell is a Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution, having worked there for the past 49 years. He has written many books, academic papers, and opinion pieces. He would like for you to think of him as a libertarian rather than a conservative, but he wants you to know his views do not always align with mainstream (?) libertarianism.

He is an ex-Marine who has earned legitimate academic degrees from Harvard (BA), Columbia (MA), and the University of Chicago (PhD). He is also black, which is relevant here because he is a prominent black intellectual who dismisses the concept of systemic racism as a meaningless non-concept that reminds him of Nazi propaganda.

By admitting you don't know who Thomas Sowell is, you have discredited yourself in the eyes of those who habitually invoke his name as evidence that even the most intelligent black Americans think the very idea of racism is a crock, by way of implying those who disagree with that opinion are akin to Nazis.

 

[arthwollipot]

By admitting you don't know who Thomas Sowell is, you have discredited yourself in the eyes of those who habitually invoke his name as evidence that even the most intelligent black Americans think the very idea of racism is a crock, by way of implying those who disagree with that opinion are akin to Nazis.

Oh no.

Anyway...

 

[d4m10n]

So you don't believe their lies then?

Which specific lies do you have in mind? If you were to name a few, perhaps that would help me explain my "understanding of the anti-DEI claims" which you have in mind.

That said, I don't think that we need to spend too much time on lies from partisans. It would be better to pick a few specific DEI interventions and ask whether the claims made on their behalf are backed up by science. For example, we could look into unconscious bias trainings, most of which have not been shown to produce lasting changes.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Who? And why should I care what some guy said?

Because he's a black conservative. To MAGA/Conservatives, that means being against anti-discrimination programs isn't racist.