Ed Israel/US Attacks Iran /Yet Another Country/Iran

[The Great Zaganza]

false dichotomy.
the alternative to US dominating all international shipping is not Universal Piracy on the High Seas.

 

[Ziggurat]

false dichotomy.
the alternative to US dominating all international shipping is not Universal Piracy on the High Seas.

Oh, I never said these were the only options. Other nations absolutely could step up and take responsibility for ensuring freedom of navigation.

But they haven't. They aren't. And they don't want to.

I'm also not sure why you think piracy has to be universal in order to have a major impact. Or that in fact piracy is even the only threat to freedom of navigation. It isn't. Recent events should have disabused you of that notion.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

Oh, I never said these were the only options. Other nations absolutely could step up and take responsibility for ensuring freedom of navigation.

But they haven't. They aren't. And they don't want to.

I'm also not sure why you think piracy has to be universal in order to have a major impact. Or that in fact piracy is even the only threat to freedom of navigation. It isn't. Recent events should have disabused you of that notion.

Why, the US has been engaging in open piracy?

And can you quit with the implication that the US did this out of the goodness of it's heart?
The open shipping allowed the resources of Africa and cheap oil from the Middle east to fatten your economy immensely, often beyond your actual means. If there is one thing the US cannot afford is to have to pay actual prices for raw materials and imported goods as what's left of your middle class would collapse.
Now that the effects of electing the most incompetent, corrupt and immoral government in the US ever is starting to burn you too you should not complain that the rest of the world is not jumping for joy for the privilege of cleaning up their mess.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Oh, I never said these were the only options. Other nations absolutely could step up and take responsibility for ensuring freedom of navigation.

But they haven't. They aren't. And they don't want to.

I'm also not sure why you think piracy has to be universal in order to have a major impact. Or that in fact piracy is even the only threat to freedom of navigation. It isn't. Recent events should have disabused you of that notion.

China does.
Europe could police its waters.

And a strong argument could be made that countries would on average be much better off if shipping wasn't so cheap, forcing countries to become more self-reliant and promote their domestic industries.

 

[Emily's Cat]

never mind

 

[Ziggurat]

And can you quit with the implication that the US did this out of the goodness of it's heart?

Oh, I never said we did it out of the goodness of our hearts. We did it because it was in our national interest, absolutely.

My point is that a lot of the world benefited from the US ensuring freedom of navigation. Furthermore, a lot of the world takes that for granted, doesn't understand that this isn't some natural default state of the world, and will end up unpleasantly surprised if we stop doing that. Which we might, because it isn't in our national interest now to nearly the same degree that it was even 20 years ago. You mentioned middle east oil, but we no longer need middle east oil. We used to, but times have changed.

 

[Ziggurat]

China does.

China does what? Ensure freedom of navigation? No it doesn't.

Europe could police its waters.

That's not enough. You need to be able to police all the waters along your trade routes if you want to ensure freedom of navigation. Can Europe do that? Not really.

And a strong argument could be made that countries would on average be much better off if shipping wasn't so cheap, forcing countries to become more self-reliant and promote their domestic industries.

Did you just discover Trump's trade agenda?

 

[Andy_Ross]

Donald compares his war in Iran to World War 2 and calls Democrats traitors and they are why he's losing his war.

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
The Democrats are doing everything possible to hurt the very strong position we are in with respect to Iran. Despite World War I lasting 4 years, 3 months, and 14 days, World War II lasting 6 years and 1 day, the Korean War lasting 3 years, 1 month, and 2 days, the Vietnam War lasting 19 years, 5 months, and 29 days, and Iraq lasting 8 years, 8 months, and 28 days, they like to say that I promised 6 weeks to defeat Iran, and actually, from the Military standpoint, it was far faster than that, but I'm not going to let them rush the United States into making a Deal that is not as good as it could have been. I read the Fake News saying that I am under "pressure" to make a Deal. THIS IS NOT TRUE! I am under no pressure whatsoever, although, it will all happen, relatively quickly! Time is not my adversary, the only thing that matters is that we finally, after 47 years, straighten out the MESS that other Presidents let happen because they didn't have the Courage or Foresight to do what had to be done with respect to Iran. We're in it, and it will be done RIGHT, and we won't let the Weak and Pathetic Democrats, TRAITORS ALL, who for years have been talking about the Dangers of Iran, and that something has to be done, but now, since I'm the one doing it, belittle the accomplishments of our Military and the Trump Administration. This is being perfectly executed, on the scale of Venezuela, just a bigger, more complex operation. The result will be the same. In my First Term, I built the Greatest Military our Country has ever seen, including adding Space Force. In my Second Term, I am properly and judiciously using our Military to solve problems left to us by others of far less understanding or competence. MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!

President DONALD J. TRUMP

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Trump: “Whether we make a deal or not makes no difference to me because we’ve won”

Link

Again? If he keeps winning do you think Iran will finally notice.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Obama!
Biden!
It's all their fault!

Donald J. Trump
@realDonald Trump
The DEAL that we are making with Iran will be FAR BETTER than the JCPOA, commonly referred to as "The Iran Nuclear Deal," penned by Barack Hussein Obama and Sleepy Joe Biden, one of the Worst Deals ever made having to do with the Security of our Country. It was a guaranteed Road to a Nuclear Weapon, which will not, and cannot, happen with the Deal we're working on. They actually gave $1.7 Billion Dollars in "GREEN" Cash, loaded into a Boeing 757, and flown to Iran for Iranian leadership to spend anyway they saw fit. He emptied out all of the Cash from Banks in D.C., Virginia, and Maryland. Those Bankers said they've never seen anything like it before. In addition, Hundreds of Billions of Dollars was paid to Iran. If I did not terminate that "Deal," Nuclear Weapons would have been used on Israel, and all over the Middle East, including our cherished U.S. Military Bases. The Fake News, like Lightweight Washington Post "Journalist" David Ignatius, loves to talk about the JCPOA, knowing that it was DANGEROUS, and a Complete Embarrassment to our Country. If a Deal happens under "TRUMP," it will guarantee Peace, Security, and Safety, not only for Israel and the Middle East, but for Europe, America, and everywhere else. It will be something that the entire World will be proud of, instead of the years of Embarrassment and Humiliation that we have been forced to suffer due to incompetent and cowardly leadership! President DONALD J. TRUMP

 

[Steve]

Did you just discover Trump's trade agenda?

Agenda? Trump? The senile imbecile has trouble remembering what he thought and said this morning.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

Oh, I never said we did it out of the goodness of our hearts. We did it because it was in our national interest, absolutely.

My point is that a lot of the world benefited from the US ensuring freedom of navigation. Furthermore, a lot of the world takes that for granted, doesn't understand that this isn't some natural default state of the world, and will end up unpleasantly surprised if we stop doing that. Which we might, because it isn't in our national interest now to nearly the same degree that it was even 20 years ago. You mentioned middle east oil, but we no longer need middle east oil. We used to, but times have changed.

Whereas the US getting lots of things for cheap and the world supporting their debts IS the natural state of the world?

The US is behaving like the UK pre-brexit. They want to keep all the perks they paid for, but stop paying.

 

[Axxman300]

That's not enough. You need to be able to police all the waters along your trade routes if you want to ensure freedom of navigation. Can Europe do that? Not really.

The Royal Navy and French Navy would like a word.

 

[Axxman300]

Quick reminder, the US is ranked 10th in global shipping. Greece is #1, followed by Japan, and China. Germany, Norway, and Korea are ahead of the US as well. Here's the important thing: Global Trade is key to international (world) peace. If we're all trading with each other we're not shooting at each other. If Trump had paid attention in junior high school economics class he'd know this.

Our ad hock actions thus far demonstrate zero strategy on the part of the White House NSC.

 

[jimbob]

Quick reminder, the US is ranked 10th in global shipping. Greece is #1, followed by Japan, and China. Germany, Norway, and Korea are ahead of the US as well. Here's the important thing: Global Trade is key to international (world) peace. If we're all trading with each other we're not shooting at each other. If Trump had paid attention in junior high school economics class he'd know this.

Our ad hock actions thus far demonstrate zero strategy on the part of the White House NSC.

I misread your last part as "zero sum" .

Which Trump thinks trade is. Some trade might be exploitative. But plenty isn't.

I suspect that is one reason why he likes tariffs.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Whereas the US getting lots of things for cheap and the world supporting their debts IS the natural state of the world?

The US is behaving like the UK pre-brexit. They want to keep all the perks they paid for, but stop paying.

Realistically... I just want the US to stop paying for all of YOUR perks, so we can take care of ourselves.

 

[Flo]

Quick reminder, the US is ranked 10th in global shipping. Greece is #1, followed by Japan, and China. Germany, Norway, and Korea are ahead of the US as well. Here's the important thing: Global Trade is key to international (world) peace. If we're all trading with each other we're not shooting at each other. If Trump had paid attention in junior high school economics class he'd know this.

Our ad hock actions thus far demonstrate zero strategy on the part of the White House NSC.

Unfortunately, Trump and his zoo majored junior high school bullying, which is why they're only interested (and believe they can achieve) in global dominance rather than trade or peace, …

 

[Andy_Ross]

Realistically... I just want the US to stop paying for all of YOUR perks, so we can take care of ourselves.

What perks do you think the US is paying for?

 

[Planigale]

Oh, I never said these were the only options. Other nations absolutely could step up and take responsibility for ensuring freedom of navigation.

But they haven't. They aren't. And they don't want to.

I'm also not sure why you think piracy has to be universal in order to have a major impact. Or that in fact piracy is even the only threat to freedom of navigation. It isn't. Recent events should have disabused you of that notion.

There weren't problems with freedom of navigation in the strahs of Hormuz before the US attacked Iran. Iran was prepared to reopen the straights

Oh, I never said these were the only options. Other nations absolutely could step up and take responsibility for ensuring freedom of navigation.

But they haven't. They aren't. And they don't want to.

I'm also not sure why you think piracy has to be universal in order to have a major impact. Or that in fact piracy is even the only threat to freedom of navigation. It isn't. Recent events should have disabused you of that notion.

Freedom of navigation?

Which country sinks ships it accuses of transporting drugs? (including double taps to kill surviving sailors in the water).
Which country blockades supplies to Cuba.
Which country seizes foreign ships on the high seas?
Who threatened the panama canal?

The biggest block to free trade is the US. (Don't mention tariffs)

Even the blocking of Hormuz only happened following on an unprovoked US attack, as everyone predicted; and Trump's response is if the Iranians can block trade through the gulf, so can I.

 

[The Atheist]

Gosh, I'm building a flagpole so I can put a US flag on it and thank the Dear Lord for our benefactor and saviour America each morning at dawn.

All those wars it started have kept us safe for so long.

Where poor old NZ would be is anyone's guess had not America won those wars in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan and Iran.

Oh, wait...

It becomes easier to see how people support Trump when they see through the lens of America being God's Chosen Land.

USA, USA, USA!