It wasn't out of the blue. And you wanted to
We ALREADY crippled their nuclear program. They're looking at ten years at best to get back in the game, if they can. And that first series of strikes was also questionable by long established standards of conduct. SOF cannot seize their nuclear material because we've blew their underground facilities away, along with all of the access, and ventilation tunnels. I know this because they would have done that on the first night.
We gave them a chance to do that. Why does that period have to be long? How long?
Here's the thing, we are the United f***ing States of America. We hold, or held all the cards. We keep them talking because we can, and we have allies who work behind the scenes to help us, and help Iran unscrew itself (not any more). Why should we rush? We are supposed to be the good guys. You know, the guys who uphold diplomatic standards, and insist that international laws be observed whenever possible.
Seriously, who Iran compared to the USA? They're just another third-rate Middle Eastern country hiding behind a reputation from two millennia ago. Iran is not the Achaemenid Empire any more. So there's no reason to go hot on them as we have. We've elected a mental midget into power.
You didn't want to find common ground, you wanted to bomb Tehran. Until Trump actually did it.
I will take peaceful resolution over war any time. Wanting to bomb Iran is only relative to their actions at the time. 1979 they held Americans hostage, and thus force would have been justified. but measured. Same is true with their various terrorist acts staged by troglodyte sycophants, but again the retaliation needs to be proportional. And then from 2004 through 2008 when their guys were running IED shops, we would have been 100% justified in ruining Tehran's day.
On the other hand, if Iran decided to change their tune toward the US, and decide to move their country forward in a productive, and peaceful way then that would be fine with me. Iran has much to offer the world, it's a shame its run by a-holes.
First off, how would you know? Second, why do we need to stick with "long established plans" instead of new ones?
If you must know, I met the folks who wrote them. They pointed me toward open-source materials which cover 90% of how we'd do things, AND cover 100% of the caveat of exactly what Iran would do in retaliation. I know it's accurate because Iran seems to have read the same books. And the "new ones"? Pete Hegseth is an alcoholic hack. He can't get promoted past Major because of his incompetence. He bent over for Trump, and went with a frat-bro version of an attack on Iran instead of pulling the plans off the shelf, and taking it step-by-step. Remember Desert Storm? That scenario was laid out in 1981, and frequently updated. The Pentagon has contingency plans for just about every country in the world, friend and foe alike as logistics is our main weapon...so we plan ahead.
I keep hearing this, but the actual evidence is sparse.
The "actual evidence" would be Iran still in control of its destiny, and Trump trying to weasel his way out of this. He's like a guy who craps his pants and goes home to change his shirt.
Nope. Note the CENTCOM press releases. They're not the usual "written by grownups" statements we've received over the past 40 years. More like drunk WWE crapola.
The problem is we have no idea what else we've killed in the way of credibility and trust on the international stage.
It's like this: I call out the school bully, and we meet after school to fight it out. In the process I hit him just right and kill him. In a court of law I can argue self-defense, but morally I'm not murderer. On the other hand, if I ambush the school bully in a supermarket parking lot, and stab him from behind then I am a murderer. Doesn't matter that he's the school bully, and all the awful things he's done pale under my COWARDACE.
This is a simple moral concept, you either grasp it or you can't.
Because you don't like Trump's tweets? Because we didn't give the Iranians fair warning?
We have produced zero evidence to back the case to go to war. Where are the ELINT intercepts? Where are the satellite photos? What about Reaper footage of trucks at specific facilities? Were is the evidence of a threat? Hell, even the Maddox thought it was shooting at something in those stormy seas.
Also, no sane person posts White House policy on social media.
You just gave justification. You believed we had justification
I've given zero justification for this current action nor do I believe this has been justified in any way in its current form.
I don't think you have a clue about what the long term consequences will be.
Nobody does. And that scares the smart people.
Is it? I was 10 when the US withdrew from South Vietnam. We killed millions of NVA and VC, but still had to leave people on the roof of our embassy. Then we somehow not only do the same thing in Afghanistan, but we also found new ways of self-defeat. We're lucky Iraq has always been a basket case.
We ( the USA) have never done anything like this before. Nobody knows how this plays out.
I don't think you understand where credibility actually comes from. It does not come from being nice or polite or agreeable.
It comes from being responsible. It comes from standing behind those values written in our Constitution and Declaration of Independence. I have no problem killing and or dying to defend the ideas in those documents. Trump wiping his ass with them.
Whose trust do we need?
We have lost some trust in Europe, but Europe is weak and feckless. Their trust is a luxury not a necessity. The Europeans don't understand the trust THEY have lost from us.
It's simple ethics. Most countries in Europe are our allies, that's a word that means something to someone with American values. Were is the United States without France? We don't win the revolution without them, thanks to the French we are 100% metric system-free. And England decided we were cool, and we've been tight ever since. All our cool military stuff? You know, the Navy, Delta Force? We got that from them.
And how is Europe feckless? Did you take any history in school? That whole WWII thing did a number on Europe. Then on the heels of the end of that war the Soviets decided to take advantage, and we got the Iron Curtain. So we dealt with 55 years of a divided Europe. Even so, Europe has enjoyed 80 years of peace (Balkans and Ukraine not included). That's a long time. No one in Europe could have said this in 1626, 1726, 1826, or 1926. They're not weak, they just grew up, and learned to get along. But England can still fight with the best of them, and France is capable when they choose to be. Germany is rearming, that could be fun. The Swedish make all the best weapons, which we buy. Belgium makes our machine guns (FN), and we've been using HK-416s (German) for almost 20 years. If Europe is so weak, why doesn't the US Army buy from Colt any more? Why did they shop in Europe?
And Europe hasn't lost trust with anyone in the US who isn't inbred.
