Autistic genius novelist woos the literary world with novel composed using "Facilitated Communication"

[arthwollipot]

Columbia Uni requires an independent medical assessment.

Who conducted that assessment and was it done via the medium of the mother?

 

[Skeptical Greg]

This is information we don't have, which is why it might be wise to find out more. Intelligence can be measured by brainwave reaction, just so you know.

Still bears no relevance to what mom is doing.

 

[angrysoba]

This is information we don't have, which is why it might be wise to find out more. Intelligence can be measured by brainwave reaction, just so you know.

Not really.

We can see what is happening. The mother is concocting his answers. Woody's finger pointing does not correspond with the letter board.

You can see that is you look.

At this point, I can't work out if you simply have not watched the videos of him "communicating", or if you have and you are trolling.

So, please tell me, have you watched the videos of Woody pointing at the board?

 

[catsmate]

Just leaning in to correct your error. The case on which ASHA bases its warning, as does the American Psychological Society, is that of a man with severe learning difficulty as well as having severe cerebral palsy. 50% of cerebral palsy cases involve intellectual impairment. The criticism there is based on a LEGAL CASE in which the family of the aforesaid specific individual sued a woman, whom they accused of sexually abusing him because they argued he could not have consented. The defendant got some medic to apply FC and she instructed the poor chap to "Tell them you love me" with someone moving his arm or hand.

This has NOTHING, zippo, nada, zilch, to do with a neurodivergent student (and UCLA and Columbia will be well aware of ASHA's disability no-no edicts) with high intelligence and who, albeit with motor-coordination issues, is able to move. Please can people get their facts straight.

This is utter rubbish.
The cases are directly comparable as the manner of the communication is the same.

 

[catsmate]

This is information we don't have, which is why it might be wise to find out more. .

Then go get it.

Intelligence can be measured by brainwave reaction, just so you know.

No. There are claims and suppositions.

 

[Darat]

Now, if I were to be charitable, and I should be, I would say that Woody's mum genuinely believes that she is interpreting his actual intentions, and the product is akin to the ideomotor effect, like a ouija board. Such illusions can be pretty convincing. I believe that there are some purported psychics out there who don't realise that what they are doing is simply cold reading, and that they are genuinely getting messages from dead people.

However, for it to have come this far, that hypothesis is unlikely. More likely is that Mum absolutely knows what she is doing, and is continuing to do it because after this long and pushing it this far, admitting the lie is practically impossible. She may have some underlying psychological syndrome where she is unable to take credit for the creative work that she attributes to her son, but since her mental health has never been under scrutiny, it's impossible to say for sure.

Could it be a considered a form of FDIA? In this case the child does have a real and serious medical condition, but it does seem to be the same possible pathology?

 

[Darat]

Just leaning in to correct your error. The case on which ASHA bases its warning, as does the American Psychological Society, is that of a man with severe learning difficulty as well as having severe cerebral palsy. 50% of cerebral palsy cases involve intellectual impairment. The criticism there is based on a LEGAL CASE in which the family of the aforesaid specific individual sued a woman, whom they accused of sexually abusing him because they argued he could not have consented. The defendant got some medic to apply FC and she instructed the poor chap to "Tell them you love me" with someone moving his arm or hand.

This has NOTHING, zippo, nada, zilch, to do with a neurodivergent student (and UCLA and Columbia will be well aware of ASHA's disability no-no edicts) with high intelligence and who, albeit with motor-coordination issues, is able to move. Please can people get their facts straight.

The facts like they are done with this thread, that turned out to be a lie? And again all you do is demonstrate your ignorance. We thankfully are not as ignorant as you are in these matters.

 

[Darat]

This is information we don't have, which is why it might be wise to find out more. Intelligence can be measured by brainwave reaction, just so you know.

Whether he is very intelligent (or not) has no bearing on the topic in this thread since he is not communicating with anyone.

 

[Darat]

Columbia Uni requires an independent medical assessment.

General Guidelines For Disability Documentation | Columbia Health https://share.google/wcy6bCguNR09aiHMo

You demonstrate that you do not understand what the word "independent" means.

 

[arthwollipot]

Could it be a considered a form of FDIA? In this case the child does have a real and serious medical condition, but it does seem to be the same possible pathology?

Similar, was my thinking, yes. The mother for some reason can't take credit and so palms it off onto the one person who can't say it's not so.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Not really.

We can see what is happening. The mother is concocting his answers. Woody's finger pointing does not correspond with the letter board.

You can see that is you look.

At this point, I can't work out if you simply have not watched the videos of him "communicating", or if you have and you are trolling.

So, please tell me, have you watched the videos of Woody pointing at the board?

There's another possibility that I think CTers on here often suffer from: They're afraid of being proven wrong. They invest emotional value in some theory or idea, and then they don't dare look at contrary evidence because realizing they were wrong would be too hurtful, so instead they double down on their beliefs, going so far as to reassure themselves that the people who disagree with them must just be narrow-minded and uninformed (granted that's a trap all of us can definitely fall into).

 

[Darat]

Similar, was my thinking, yes. The mother for some reason can't take credit and so palms it off onto the one person who can't say it's not so.

I've read a lot of her interviews and she is certainly basking in being considered a truly exceptional mother.

 

[zooterkin]

Just leaning in to correct your error.

Are you unable to remain upright? Anyway, what error is that? You fail to identify any.

The case on which ASHA bases its warning,

"The" case? What case? The page I linked to mentions no specific case, but does link to a number of papers. Regardless, the conclusion is based on an examination of the method of RPM, and FC. It is not affected by the intelligence, or otherwise, of the person whose communication is supposedly being relayed.

Try again, from whatever angle you choose.

 

[Vixen]

Who conducted that assessment and was it done via the medium of the mother?

What do you understand by the word, 'independent'? So now even the doctors are in on it?

I used to marvel at how angry and activist disablist groups were but now I am beginning to understand. The disabled are not asking for ableist approval, permission or sympathy. They are demanding their rights. Who cares if you don't believe Woody? He's not going to be performing tricks like a pony for you, any more than you will for him.

I suggest you write to Columbia and UCLA universities and demand an explanation! Show them the angry YouTuber clip as your evidence of a sneaky sneaky fraud by this bloody freak and his psychotic mum!

<sfx sharp intake of breath> "Shouldn't be allowed! Bloody bastards!"

 

[Vixen]

Are you unable to remain upright? Anyway, what error is that? You fail to identify any.


"The" case? What case? The page I linked to mentions no specific case, but does link to a number of papers. Regardless, the conclusion is based on an examination of the method of RPM, and FC. It is not affected by the intelligence, or otherwise, of the person whose communication is supposedly being relayed.

Try again, from whatever angle you choose.

Thank you for confirming you know nothing about the history of the ASHA edict and what it refers to. However, you know better than UCLA, Columbia and Woody's doctors!

 

[Jack by the hedge]

"Who cares if you don't believe Woody?"

Once again you bark up the wrong tree. You get this wrong so often, you can hardly be doing it by mistake. This is not about believing Woody. This is about believing his mother. The intellectual capacity of the disabled person is not the point at issue. All messages "from Woody" come from his mother. The question is whether she is simply making them up, and yes she does appear to be just making them up.

She may tell herself she is helping Woody because people will like and admire him for "his" book. But if he genuinely has anything to say to the world, he will never say it while his mother blocks the way.

 

[zooterkin]

Thank you for confirming you know nothing about the history of the ASHA edict and what it refers to. However, you know better than UCLA, Columbia and Woody's doctors!

Perhaps you could actually address the information presented, rather than superciliously attempting to handwave it away.

What is this history, and how is it relevant? In what way does it invalidate any findings about RPM and FC?

 

[Darat]

What do you understand by the word, 'independent'? So now even the doctors are in on it?

...snip...

He probably read and understood what the policy was - so instead of misunderstanding as you did what the word "independent" meant in the policy he knows what it means.

 

[Vixen]

Perhaps you could actually address the information presented, rather than superciliously attempting to handwave it away.

What is this history, and how is it relevant? In what way does it invalidate any findings about RPM and FC?

Look up the history of disability legislation and how 'reasonable adjustment' (or, in the US, 'reasonable accommodation') came into being. Based on case law. The proviso that FC and its variations should not be admissible as a reasonable adjustment was because it was unethical towards the presumed helpless and vulnerable disabled subject. That is why it is relevant. Institutions, local authorities and corporations use this law for guidelines. They stick to its provisions. FC was deemed unethical towards a certain group. Woody is clearly not one of them, having graduated high school, UCLA and Columbia.

 

[Darat]

Look up the history of disability legislation and how 'reasonable adjustment' (or, in the US, 'reasonable accommodation') came into being. Based on case law.
The proviso that FC and it's variations should not be admissible as a reasonable adjustment was because it was unethical towards the presumed helpless and vulnerable disabled subject. That is why it is relevant. Institutions, local authorities and corporations use this law for guidelines. They stick to it's provisions. FC was deemed unethical towards a certain group. Woody is clearly not one of them, having graduated high school, UCLA and Columbia.

Nope - it is because it doesn't work.

And following the typical woo track, many groups have tried to resurrect it using different names etc.