Autistic genius novelist woos the literary world with novel composed using "Facilitated Communication"

[catsmate]

That would make sense; I was thinking of yer man, the subject of this thread. Sorry.

Not at all, you reminded me of being tested.

 

[catsmate]

Another fun experiment: record samples of his inputs, along with the mom's interpretations, and show them to her one at a time, in a random order.

What does 'AUCIEBOZWUXAAUIRV' mean? If she can translate with no problem when he signs, she should have no problem when shown the sequences later. I wonder what excuses she would come up with to not agree to the test.

She may simply be self-delusional.

 

[Helen]

She may simply be self-delusional.

I suspect that it may have started out that way, in the cases i have been involved in, that has been true, but a book and a masters later, I think she knows the truth.

But it's very painful to let go of that delusion, there is so much hope invested in it, and the devastation of realising that you have been fooling youself is deeply painful.

 

[theprestige]

The entire discussion has been about what might be owed to him, not whether he might owe anyone anything.

It's still a good excuse. Deflection, appeal to emotion, but no attempt at explanation. No opening for further questions. Easily escalates to leave us alone, we'll sue, etc.

 

[steenkh]

I was addressing your insistence that FC is always a fraud and pointed out your citation from wiki that proves it, according to you, does not apply to Woody.

Well, fraud is a strong word, when it is most probable that the mother is simply delusional. It reminds me of homoeopathy where most of the practitioners really believes in the beneficial effects. And we also claim that homoeopathy never works, even though, according to you, we ought to examine each and every case to see if it works this time!

 

[Vixen]

"Supposedly" highly intelligent.

Woody is claimed to be highly intelligent, based entirely on work written by his mother, which she claims was Woody's work. Her method is one which is known to have been used by people who were at best deluded and generally fraudulent.

If Woody can be found a means to genuinely communicate at whatever level he is able* that would surely be more ethical than leaving his mother to continue to pretend, even if she tells herself her assistance is somehow helping him.

She may have convinced herself she is faithfully transcribing his ideas, much like people receiving psychic messages can be sincere but deluded. Testing this ability would be trivial.

*It would be a sad irony if Woody was indeed a genius and his mother's novel was a poor shadow of the work he could be producing.

As I said before and as I'll patiently say it again - and you can even look up the essay by a psychologist as referenced in Helen's own wiki extract (which indicates to me she has not read her own references) in which it CLEARLY refers to unethical usage in non-speaking severe learning difficulty (please NOTA BENE!) the example given a man with cerebral palsy who was tricked by that method: he had severe learning difficulty . Woody does not. He is severely disabled, yes, but he has no learning problem and as surely assessed by his school and clinical physicians.

Suppose someone is completely paralysed, can't talk but is perfectly capable of intellectually stimulating activity such as reading, learning, foreign language learning, school certificate, etc., are you seriously suggesting no-one should be allowed to help facilitate communication for them? What about a blind person using Braille?

Being seriously disabled does not automatically equate to being intellectually incapable.

 

[Vixen]

And we have clips of her claiming to be transcribing what he says when we can see she is not transcribing the letters he is pointing to. We have no evidence that he can communicate via a letterboard.

I am impressed that you can assess a person's capability by a short clip. Has it occurred to you those clips were deliberately highlighted by the producers to tease the viewer?

 

[Myriad]

"Of course crystal ball gazing is not an effective method of predicting the future or conversing with the dead, but this medium uses a crystal pyramid, which is an entirely different technique."

 

[Vixen]

Another fun experiment: record samples of his inputs, along with the mom's interpretations, and show them to her one at a time, in a random order.

What does 'AUCIEBOZWUXAAUIRV' mean? If she can translate with no problem when he signs, she should have no problem when shown the sequences later. I wonder what excuses she would come up with to not agree to the test.

Ok. So you see a sign language person conversing with a profoundly deaf person. You can't believe it so you are going to drag these two aside and perform your degrading tricks on them just because you can't believe it's possible?

 

[Helen]

He has not been assessed, his mother has, since she is the only one who can communicate with him. Allegedly.

 

[Vixen]

"Of course crystal ball gazing is not an effective method of predicting the future or conversing with the dead, but this medium uses a crystal pyramid, which is an entirely different technique."

Ok, you are right. Woody is a brain-dead vegetable and his Mom a deluded fraudster.

 

[Vixen]

He has not been assessed, his mother has, since she is the only one who can communicate with him. Allegedly.

Seriously? I know healthcare in the USA is incredibly expensive but an educated parent wouldn't bother to get her autistic son clinically assessed?

 

[Helen]

Ok. So you see a sign language person conversing with a profoundly deaf person. You can't believe it so you are going to drag these two aside and perform your degrading tricks on them just because you can't believe it's possible?

Don't be ridiculous. Sign language is a recognised language. AAC is as well.

Also, what the ◊◊◊◊ is a sign language person?

 

[zooterkin]

As I said before and as I'll patiently say it again - and you can even look up the essay by a psychologist as referenced in Helen's own wiki extract (which indicates to me she has not read her own references) in which it CLEARLY refers to unethical usage in non-speaking severe learning difficulty (please NOTA BENE!) the example given a man with cerebral palsy who was tricked by that method: he had severe learning difficulty . Woody does not. He is severely disabled, yes, but he has no learning problem and as surely assessed by his school and clinical physicians.
...

You have absolutely no evidence for the highlighted, that is entirely supposition on your part. Please re-examine your assumptions.

 

[Helen]

Seriously? I know healthcare in the USA is incredibly expensive but an educated parent wouldn't bother to get her autistic son clinically assessed?

How on earth do you assess a persons intelligence, if you cannot communicate with? This brick wall is not going away, Vixen; he does not communicate with anyone else, everything goes through his mother.

 

[Vixen]

She may simply be self-delusional.

Right so the High School, Community College, UCLA and Columbia are unable to spot the deluded pushy Mom with a no-hope kid. Got it.

 

[Vixen]

How on earth do you assess a persons intelligence, if you cannot communicate with? This brick wall is not going away, Vixen; he does not communicate with anyone else, everything goes through his mother.

Citation please he doesn't communicate with anyone else? I saw a Jenna Book Club clip in which Woody is clearly listening to Jenna and absorbing what she says.

 

[Helen]

Why would they? That is not their expertise. They should have been more sceptical, of course.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Right so the High School, Community College, UCLA and Columbia are unable to spot the deluded pushy Mom with a no-hope kid. Got it.

And we're back to the Cottingley Fairies.

 

[Vixen]

You have absolutely no evidence for the highlighted, that is entirely supposition on your part. Please re-examine your assumptions.

His High School teacher reportedly is so proud of Woody, he asked to keep Woody's High School paper.