Autistic genius novelist woos the literary world with novel composed using "Facilitated Communication"

[Vixen]

That's the commonest method, yes, but what Woody's mother is doing - interpreting what letter Woody is pointing to in a way no one else is apparently able to do - is functionally indistinguishable.

But Woody does not have a severe learning disability, therefore it is okay to help him communicate. The big controversy around this revolves around a guy who had cerebral palsy (a completely different syndrome from autism) and was non-speaking. He was manipulated by various people using this method. I feel sure UCLA and Columbia are also aware of those ethical issues, given the US Psychological Society and the US Hearing and Speech Society has condemned that type of usage. If it turns out Woody is not intellectually capable enough to have produced the work it is claimed he has produced, I will be the first to strongly criticise the mother. If he has intellectual capability then it is is harder to claim he is not in charge of his own movements.

 

[Vixen]

But it doesn't help him to be like any other young man, since he cannot communicate unless his mother is with him. Depriving him of the opportunity to communicate directly with others, if possible, is definitely unethical.

That might be true but that is just your assumption based on the fact he is severely disabled.

 

[Carrot Flower King]

Hi, is this the right place for this consignment of mulberry bushes?

Can someone sign for them, please?

 

[Carrot Flower King]

Oh, I believe there is an order of ADOS-2 (non-verbal module), ADI-R, WISA and a parcel of OTs to check problems around co-ordination and proprioception.

Will someone be around to sign for those?

 

[catsmate]

By inference.

So you made it up

 

[catsmate]

The controversy around FC is to do with the idea that deeply disabled people with severe learning disabilities (SDL) are being exploited by use of communication methods other than by speech. I am not sure why you are assuming ipso facto that this unethical use extends to ALL severely disabled people but I accept that you are utterly convinced Woody's mother is perpetrating a con because Woody is severely disabled. And an angry person on YouTube says so.

Garbage. Facilitated Communication has been repeatedly debunked.

 

[catsmate]

Please see my comments re the difference between a severely disabled person with severe learning disabilty ~vs~ those who do not have SDL.

It is irrelevant.

 

[catsmate]

But Woody does not have a severe learning disability, therefore it is okay to help him communicate. The big controversy around this revolves around a guy who had cerebral palsy (a completely different syndrome from autism) and was non-speaking. He was manipulated by various people using this method. I feel sure UCLA and Columbia are also aware of those ethical issues, given the US Psychological Society and the US Hearing and Speech Society has condemned that type of usage. If it turns out Woody is not intellectually capable enough to have produced the work it is claimed he has produced, I will be the first to strongly criticise the mother. If he has intellectual capability then it is is harder to claim he is not in charge of his own movements.

Facilitated Communication does not work. You seem incapable of accepting this simple fact.

 

[catsmate]

That might be true but that is just your assumption based on the fact he is severely disabled.

Another strawman.

 

[Pixel42]

But Woody does not have a severe learning disability, therefore it is okay to help him communicate.

The only evidence that Woody does not have a severe learning disability is that obtained using the very comunication method whose validity is being questioned. That validity can only be established by testing it in the ways previously shown to be reliable for similar types of facilitated communication. I repeat: his mother (and only his mother) being able to interpret his pointings is functionally indistinguishable from previous cases of facilitated communication, all of which when so tested proved to be wishful thinking at best, deliberate deception at worst.

 

[catsmate]

Oh, I believe there is an order of ADOS-2 (non-verbal module), ADI-R, WISA and a parcel of OTs to check problems around co-ordination and proprioception.

Will someone be around to sign for those?

Oh I remember that. Module 4 IIRR.

 

[Olmstead]

Yes, I fully understand the scepticism. But Woody is supposedly highly intelligent so anything designed to help him communicate and achieve his aims to be like any other young man is not unethical under those circumstances.

You don't seem to appreciate the significance of this. If the communication method works, there's probably a Nobel Prize in it for the two of them, as long as they can get around to publishing something on the method, not to mention all the people it would help.

Or, you know, it's bogus.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Yes, I fully understand the scepticism. But Woody is supposedly highly intelligent so anything designed to help him communicate and achieve his aims to be like any other young man is not unethical under those circumstances.

"Supposedly" highly intelligent.

Woody is claimed to be highly intelligent, based entirely on work written by his mother, which she claims was Woody's work. Her method is one which is known to have been used by people who were at best deluded and generally fraudulent.

If Woody can be found a means to genuinely communicate at whatever level he is able* that would surely be more ethical than leaving his mother to continue to pretend, even if she tells herself her assistance is somehow helping him.

She may have convinced herself she is faithfully transcribing his ideas, much like people receiving psychic messages can be sincere but deluded. Testing this ability would be trivial.

*It would be a sad irony if Woody was indeed a genius and his mother's novel was a poor shadow of the work he could be producing.

 

[Carrot Flower King]

Oh I remember that. Module 4 IIRR.

Module 1; 4 is the one for those with fluent speech.

 

[catsmate]

Module 1; 4 is the one for those with fluent speech.

I was thinking of me

 

[Darat]

The only evidence that Woody does not have a severe learning disability is that obtained using the very comunication method whose validity is being questioned. That validity can only be established by testing it in the ways previously shown to be reliable for similar types of facilitated communication. I repeat: his mother (and only his mother) being able to interpret his pointings is functionally indistinguishable from previous cases of facilitated communication, all of which when so tested proved to be wishful thinking at best, deliberate deception at worst.

And we have clips of her claiming to be transcribing what he says when we can see she is not transcribing the letters he is pointing to. We have no evidence that he can communicate via a letterboard.

 

[Carrot Flower King]

I was thinking of me

That would make sense; I was thinking of yer man, the subject of this thread. Sorry.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Another fun experiment: record samples of his inputs, along with the mom's interpretations, and show them to her one at a time, in a random order.

What does 'AUCIEBOZWUXAAUIRV' mean? If she can translate with no problem when he signs, she should have no problem when shown the sequences later. I wonder what excuses she would come up with to not agree to the test.

 

[theprestige]

Probably the simplest one is that her son doesn't owe anyone any such tests.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Probably the simplest one is that her son doesn't owe anyone any such tests.

The entire discussion has been about what might be owed to him, not whether he might owe anyone anything.