• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Ed Israel/US Attacks Iran /Yet Another Country/Iran

the concept of Invasion has to be completely re-examined in a Drone Warfare world: a defender can pre-program exact coordinates and flightpaths well in advance into a huge number of relatively dumb and cheap drones, making them hard to jam or intercept due to numbers.

It would be very foolish to make Iran the first test case - foolish and costly in terms of lives.

I am worried that Trump is hoping for massive US casualties to create a "sunken cost"/outrage response in Americans and create the Casus Belli for an even bigger war all through the Midterms.
 
decapitating a regime that is willing to negotiate to be replaced by leaders not even willing to talk is like taking away someone's knife so they have a free hand to pull a gun.

as has been pointed out: the lesson should have been learned from Israel's attacks against Hezbollah and Hamas.
 
W.D.Clinger said:
When @Ziggurat disputed the article, he presented essentially no evidence beyond his own personal belief that the article was not to be believed. When someone relies upon his own personal incredulity as the primary evidence for his argument, he invites a comparison between his own personal credibility and the credibility of sources he disputes.


Despite @Ziggurat's disputation of the article, he here admits that almost everything said in the article is true.

The one thing @Ziggurat actually disputes is the rather obvious conclusion to be drawn from the facts @Ziggurat is now conceding: Trump isn't getting a full picture of the war, because Trump's character and mental disabilities (which @Ziggurat does not dispute) have led his aides to give up on trying to get Trump to pay attention to written briefings, and are trying to keep him happy by showing him videos of things being blown up.



With respect to the blue part: Sources with first or second hand knowledge often speak off the record because they don't want to be identified. When there are only a few individuals who would have first hand knowledge, reporting that a source has first hand knowledge would go a long way toward identifying the source. The news article we're discussing does not claim its sources have first hand knowledge, nor does it claim its sources have second hand knowledge, but its prose relies upon the standard locutions that reporters use to avoiding outing an off-the-record source by saying the source has first or second hand knowledge.

@Ziggurat, it seems, would like to interpret the deliberate vagueness of those standard locutions as evidence the sources don't know what they're talking about. That is his prerogative. It is not a reason for others to share his conclusion that absence of evidence for first or second hand knowledge is evidence for absence of such knowledge.

With respect to the pink: @Ziggurat is saying his personal estimation of the balance of probabilities is that the article's sources don't have first or second hand knowledge. That is his prerogative. It is not a reason for others to share his estimation of the balance of probabilities.
Click to expand...
There's another reason why TACO's aides are doing this. They want to goad him into taking actions no sane person would because they believe it will personally benefit them.
 
Houthis confirm they launched attack against Israel

The Iranian backed Houthis in Yemen have confirmed they have attacked Israel for the first time since the start of the US-Israeli war with Iran.

The group says it fired a barrage of ballistic missiles "targeting sensitive Israeli military sites" in response to the targeting of Iran, Lebanon, Iraq and Palestinian territories. It adds that its operations will continue until the "aggression" on all fronts ends.

www.bbc.co.uk

Yemen's Iran-backed Houthis launch missile at Israel for first time since war began - follow live

As the war enters its second month, Donald Trump's special envoy says the US is hopeful of meetings with Iran "this week".
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
 
I think it's not too early for everyone decide, in their own heart, whether Trump or Netanyahu dropping a Nuke of any size on Iran, regardless of the circumstances, will be a step to far for them or not.
 
Andy_Ross said:
Trump: We learned other allies were not there. We did not need them but they weren’t there if we did need them. That’s going to be very costly for them
Click to expand...

Yeah, you're the king of revenge and you never forget or forgive a sleight but, here's the thing, the person this misadventure could be most costly for is you.
 
Andy_Ross said:
How to treat your allies

President Trump mocks Saudi Arabia’s Crown Prince Bin Salman:

“He didn’t think he would be kissing my ass, he really didn’t…and now he has to be nice to me….he better be nice to me, he’s gotta be..”
Click to expand...

How to make transactional friends and influence people to stab you in the back at the first opportunity. Amazing.

And this is the guy we thought didn't value soft power and diplomacy. We didn't know the half of it.
 
Roger Ramjets said:
Who said they were?

Casualties of the Iraq War

If I starve someone to death or give them a fatal disease I still killed them. If I incited others to kill them, or even just gave them the freedom to do so, I still killed them indirectly. Take the population that should be alive and subtract the number who are actually alive, and you get the most accurate measure of those who died due to my actions.

The count of confirmed deaths will always be lower. However we see here that even that is around 200,000, with at least least half of them 'violent' - and every one was a result of the US invading Iraq. 'Milllions' is only a slight exaggeration. It was actually only ~1 million. But hey, if you want to play that game:- according to the Arolsen Archives only 271,000 Jews were killed by the Nazis in WWII, not the 6 million most people claim. This makes it OK. :boggled:
Click to expand...
Globally millions dead as a result of US wars post 9/11; mostly muslim.
An estimated over 940,000 people were killed by direct post-9/11 war violence in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Yemen, and Pakistan between 2001-2023. Of these, more than 432,000 were civilians. The number of people wounded or ill as a result of the conflicts is far higher, as is the number of civilians who died “indirectly,” as a result of wars’ destruction of economies, healthcare systems, infrastructure and the environment. An estimated 3.6-3.8 million people died indirectly in post-9/11 war zones, bringing the total death toll to at least 4.5-4.7 million and counting.
Click to expand...
costsofwar.watson.brown.edu

Human

Costs of War research examines the human toll of U.S. military operations and spending, for U.S. service members, veterans, military contractors, and allies; and for civilians killed and displaced.
costsofwar.watson.brown.edu costsofwar.watson.brown.edu

People in war zones are killed in their homes, in markets, and on roadways, by bombs, bullets, fire, improvised explosive devices (IEDs), and drones. Civilians die at checkpoints, as they are run off the road by military vehicles, when they step on mines or cluster bombs, and when they are kidnapped and executed for purposes of revenge or intimidation.

Many times more people die from reverberating effects including wars’ destruction of economies, leading to loss of livelihoods and food insecurity; the destruction of public services and health infrastructure; environmental contamination; and reverberating trauma and interpersonal violence. All of these effects lead to increased malnutrition, illness, injury, maternal and newborn complications, and what health experts call “indirect death.” Women and children in particular suffer the brunt of these ongoing impacts.
Click to expand...
 
The Great Zaganza said:
I don't think you are the person who gets to make that assessment
Click to expand...
In what sense? For legal status, you are correct. The government designates terrorist groups, and both are designated as such. But everyone gets to make their own assessment.
 
Axxman300 said:
The same way we did in Honduras, El Salvador, Nicaragua, and Cuba.
Click to expand...
Funding terrorist groups?
Axxman300 said:
And those countries always fail, and then they come crying to us to bail them out.
Click to expand...
Cuba? Venezuela? Chile? Vietnam? If they are bound to fail why does the US have to impose sanctions and fund and arm terrorists to try and overthrow democratically elected socialist governments (e.g. Chile, Iran).

Axxman300 said:
They're also homicidal a-holes. By the way, none of the Hezbollah guys are answering my calls to their pagers. What's up with that?
Click to expand...
Planting booby traps is a war crime. Explicitly forbidden.
Axxman300 said:
No you don't. This is just as much a game to you based on how you give a pass your side murdering people for causes you believe in, while labeling pro-western fighters as terrorists, and murderers.
Click to expand...
I sugeest you read this report on US funded terrorists in Afghanistan

I have always explicitly condemned all violence. Understanding why people resort to violence does not mean that I believe it is the correct thing to do. What I do ask is that the crimes of all are recognised as such and not excused because they are 'on our side'.
 
Emily's Cat said:
Cuba is welcome to increase the amount of oil they purchase from the US.

Hey, I never claimed the US was good. But it sure as hell isn't worse than China, Russia, or Iran.
Click to expand...
I think you don't understand how sanctions on Cuba work. Cuba isn't allowed to purchase oil from the US (strictly speaking US comapanies aren't allowed to sell oil).

I certainly wasn't claiming the US was worse than China, Russia, or Iran, but it is the cause of millions of unnecessary (mostly muslim deaths). It is utterly unreliable breaking treaties, trade deals.
 
Israel seems to be following the same strategy in Lebanon and Iran as it did in Gaza with the deliberate targeting of medical staff and facilities.

Israel openly hunting paramedics in southern Lebanon; kills 5 more in new strike
Five paramedics from the Al-Risala Scouts Association, an emergency service affiliated with the Amal Movement, were killed when an Israeli airstrike struck their ambulance on the Zawtar al-Gharbiyeh road on March 27, according to local reports.The victims—Hussein Darwish, Adel Qdouh, Ibrahim Zaher Abu Zeid, Ali Joha, and Hassan Moussa Noureddine—were killed while responding to the scene.The strike comes amid a sharp escalation in attacks on medical crews, with information from Lebanon’s Health Ministry indicating at least 48 paramedics killed since March 2, pointing to Israel’s systematic pattern of targeting first responders.
Click to expand...

Health sector impact in Lebanon from Israel’s attacks since March 2:
• 51 medical workers killed
• 126 wounded
• 48 ambulances damaged
• 18 medical centers hit
• 75 attacks on EMS teams
• 5 hospitals close
Click to expand...
1774719869990.png
US-Israel strikes hit 290 health facilities across Iran
The Iranian Red Crescent Society has released updated figures on the scale of destruction wrought by the ongoing U.S.-Israeli campaign, now in its 28th day.

More than 92,000 civilian units have been damaged or destroyed, including over 71,000 residential units across Iran’s provinces.

The strikes have also hit 290 health, medical, and emergency services facilities, and 600 schools.

The Red Crescent itself has not been spared: 17 of its centers have been struck, along with 48 operational vehicles — including 46 ambulances.
Click to expand...

https://twitter.com/x/status/2037920529068269852
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom