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Ed Israel/US Attacks Iran /Yet Another Country/Iran

Tristan Chi said:
I find myself cheering for the Iranian regime. Never thought that would happen.
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They are still worse than Trump. Although it's hard to remember.

They did recently release a video that was playing right into the blood libel.
 
Planigale said:
There is a difference between funding and arming insurgents such as Contras, Kurdish groups, Afghani militias (which the US does, which are as much terrorist groups as groups supported by Iran, arguably the US is a much bigger state sponsor of terrorism than Iran).
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I'll take that argument.

The Contras and the Mujahadin in Afghanistan were groups we aided in response to Soviet backed, and Soviet invasion. You cannot ignore the COLD WAR. The Soviets had their "freedom fighters" and we ours. The United States never acted in a vacuum until 2016. After WWII, we wanted to hang it all up again as we did after WWI. But the Soviets expanded their territory, and were actively working to overthrow countries around the world. This is not propaganda, they admitted it, and documented it. Even when there was an anti-western conflict they didn't initiate, they found ways to assist (financial, logistics, weapons, training via proxies). The US, UK, France, Belgium, and other countries did the same.

That was the game. The claim that the US is a larger sponsor of terrorism is lie.

And why can't we help the Kurds? All the bitching about Palestine, but Kurdistan doesn't count? Why is that? If it wasn't for the Cold War forcing us to get in bed with Turkey, Kurdistan would be a thing today.
 
Andy_Ross said:
Mockler: Do you agree that we've won? He said we've won. Yes or no?

Jennings: If you consider a condition destroying their military capabilities…

Mockler: We haven't. If that's true, why can't the strait of hormuz be open if their military is destroyed?

Hunt: If it is true that we have won, why are we sending the 82nd airborne?

https://twitter.com/x/status/2036628430234792052
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If I was Iran, I'd boobytrap the crap out of Kharg Island, wait for the US forces to land, get established, and hit them with artillery until the USAF destroys all my guns.

I need to add the obvious, victory is obvious when the enemy stops shooting back, and flies the white flag...Man, it has been a long time since we've won something...
 
Helen said:
Usually people who have been defeated militarily tend to understand that they have, since they have been, you know, defeated. Militarily. So if Iran doesn't understand that, it could be because they haven't.
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There's that great moment in Gladiator in the opening sequence just before the Germanic army attacks.

Quintus looks at the Germans and says, "You would think they would know when they are defeated".
Maximus looks at him and says, "Would you?".
 
Axxman300 said:
I need to add the obvious, victory is obvious when the enemy stops shooting back, and flies the white flag...Man, it has been a long time since we've won something...
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these guys don’t understand war and how the world works. they think they can air strike and kill a bunch of people and it’ll be forgotten in three weeks when the headlines get too inconvenient.

it’s obvious they’ve completely underestimated iran. russia did something similar recently. now there’s a lot of dead russians
 
Planigale said:
Take Afghanistan, there once was a progressive secular communist government, the US funded trained and armed Islamist terrorists to overthrow that government
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Nope. The Soviets invaded Afghanistan.

Planigale said:
They were ultimately successful and set up an Islamic government.
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Nope. That was the Taliban, a Pakistani ISI creation, that took power in the chaos after the Soviets left Afghanistan.

Planigale said:
The terrorists (some) trained funded and armed by the US morphed into Al Qaeda.
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Nope. Al Qaeda was in Afghanistan to FIGHT THE SOVIETS. The CIA did reach out to Osama bin Laden, and he told us to F-k off. The only thing Al Qaeda hated more than the Soviets was the USA. And Al Qaeda had branched off from the Muslim Brotherhood...because they weren't extreme enough.

Planigale said:
Move on a few years and US invades / makes war on the Islamist government of Afghanistan that it had paid to be put in pllace.
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Nope. We didn't put the Taliban into power. Never happened. Maybe look up Wahabis sometime if you need to know about the Taliban's origins. The US works with political fanatics, not religious fanatics.

Planigale said:
Ultimately the US is unsuccessful, the Taliban successfully defeat and expel US forces from afghanistan and set up an even more extremist Islamic government.
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Not the way it went down. We were not expelled. We left. Turns out the Afghans are useless, and we ignored 20 years of evidence supporting this fact. And the Taliban are just the same as when they ran away the first time. They are no more extremist, just the Taliban. And they've been quietly asking us for money, and trade deals. So LOL.

Planigale said:
As we see in Vietnam communist governments aren't necessarily the worst option.
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Sure, as long as you're not one of the people who don't survive their re-education camps, or question authority, or fail to suck up to the local party commissar. And Vietnam is communist in name only. In the 1990s they lectured the Clinton Administration on economics, and suggested lower corporate taxes to allow growth. It's like Barry Goldwater won.

Planigale said:
Perhaps if the US had just left things alone a secular modernising government in Afghanistan would have been a better option than the many years of warfare and consequent Islamist government and poverty induced by US sanctions that has happened?
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Except none of that happened. We didn't install and Islamist government in Afghanistan. And you ignore the undercurrent of fundamentalist Islamic fear of the mid-to-late 20th century where the youth was embracing western ideas, music, technology, and worse still: Women's rights. The Islamic fundamentalism which saw the rise of Ayatollah Khomeini in Iran was all about old men freaking out because women had jobs, and could freely dress, and participate in society. In the US we see the same thing with our Christian nutjobs.

Planigale said:
ake Syria, the US funded armed anti-Assad Islamist terrorists, the arms 'leaked' and ISIS resulted.
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Man, not even close.

ISIS formed in Abu Ghraib Prison and other detention centers in Iraq because the US didn't know what it was doing. ISIS wasn't our creation, but it sure as hell was our fault. Assad's regime was happy to allow jihadists to come in through Syria to train, and cross into Iraq to fight US forces. After we left, those jihadists went back to Syria to fight Assad. Hilarious, actually.

Are you using ChatGTP or something? You're history is really bad.
 
dirtywick said:
these guys don’t understand war and how the world works. they think they can air strike and kill a bunch of people and it’ll be forgotten in three weeks when the headlines get too inconvenient.

it’s obvious they’ve completely underestimated iran. russia did something similar recently. now there’s a lot of dead russians
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They are the dumbest, cluelest people ever to hold power in the White House and Congress. And I lived through Kissenger.
 
Axxman300 said:
I'll take that argument.

The Contras and the Mujahadin in Afghanistan were groups we aided in response to Soviet backed, and Soviet invasion. You cannot ignore the COLD WAR. The Soviets had their "freedom fighters" and we ours. The United States never acted in a vacuum until 2016. After WWII, we wanted to hang it all up again as we did after WWI. But the Soviets expanded their territory, and were actively working to overthrow countries around the world. This is not propaganda, they admitted it, and documented it. Even when there was an anti-western conflict they didn't initiate, they found ways to assist (financial, logistics, weapons, training via proxies). The US, UK, France, Belgium, and other countries did the same.

That was the game. The claim that the US is a larger sponsor of terrorism is lie.

And why can't we help the Kurds? All the bitching about Palestine, but Kurdistan doesn't count? Why is that? If it wasn't for the Cold War forcing us to get in bed with Turkey, Kurdistan would be a thing today.
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Afghanistan had a border with Russia / USSR. US involvement with Afghanistan was equivalent to Soviet forces in Mexico, Canada, or Cuba. It was clearly an aggressive action by the US. How would the US have responded to the soviets funding and arming terrorists in Mexico or Canada?

The US 'hang it up'? Korea? Vietnam? Cambodia? Chile? Iran? Italy? (many others)... not all Soviet supported democracies overthrown by US supported military juntas. Oppressed people may choose socialism over right wing authoritarism. In many cases e.g. Chile, Iran there is no evidence that the choice of a socialist democracy was pro-soviet but the US chose to impose an authoritarian dictatorship.

Kurdistan, so you want to officially fund a terrorist force against a NATO ally?

At least you recognise that both sides 'freedom fightes' are equivalent. That Hezbollah and Hamas are freedom fighters.

You may view it as a game. I view it as killing.
 
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