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Ed Israel/US Attacks Iran /Yet Another Country/Iran

MAGA attempts to make sense of Trump's demented gibberish are comedy gold! :dl:
Apparently, you didn't understand that my statement "In all seriousness" indicated that what I said prior to that wasn't serious, only what followed after was.
 
I mean, if @Planigale believes Iran is a not state sponsor of terror, has not repeatedly initiated hostilities with other countries by this means, nor supported other nations in their own wars of aggression, then there's not much more to be said.
Moving goalposts.

Using proxies is not the same as attacking yourself.

The US has always used proxies, including for terrorism.
 
9-11-2001 was nothing to do with Iran. It was a Sunni terrorist group that also carried out terrorist attacks on Shia / Iranian targets.

The 1983 Beirut bombing against the Multinational force (french soldiers were also killed) was probably Syrian not Iranian, but uncertainty about the perpetrators continues. Suicide bombings aren't of course unique to Shia Islam, viz kamikaze.
You missed the obvious point. Suicide attacks have been our blind-spot since 1945. 9-11 happened because we always assumed they'd plant a bomb, or park one outside, and run. The idea of hijacking an airliner and turning it into a missile was a Tom Clancy plot-point, but not something we ever trained nor war gamed. And I know Iran had nothing to do with 9-11, how about you drop into the conspiracy theory 9-11 board sometime (I used to live there).

As far as Beirut went, the point was it was a suicide bomber who exploited an easy target. The target was easy because we never considered someone would drive a truck into the building, and die with it.

In the mid-1990s my friend and I spun up a consulting group to assess security for private companies. He was ex-military. We'd survey buildings, monitor security for responses, etc. In our free time we war-gamed nightmare scenarios. We gamed destroying bridges in San Francisco Bay, wrecking the airport, cutting of major highways, damaging electrical substations. My masterpiece involved burning a huge chunk of San Francisco to the ground by hijacking a gasoline tanker truck. We were really good at mayhem. But all of our attack involved pulling them off, and escaping to live another day/

But we were humbled on 9-11-2001. Al Qaeda pulled off a masterpiece that continues to pay them dividends. It never occurred to us to use suicide attacks. And we were just like the professionals at every government LE. and intelligence agency: Two Dimensional in a Four Dimensional battlefield.

After 9-11, we added suicide attacks to our assessment, and we found our potential success rate increased. My attack on San Francisco went from two trucks to seven or more with suicide drivers. And the beauty of this was even if the attacks never happen, the US, and other governments have to spend tons of money, and infringe on basic freedoms to have an hope of preventing the suicide attacks. In short, terrorists can win today simple by existing. Even if we kill them, they win...So we kill them. But we deal with Al Qaeda and ISIS on our own terms.

Iran, and their sycophant proxies have been handled discretely since the 1980s. We have always downplayed Iran, being firm when necessary, but never crossing the line. We know they want us to take a swing at them, they always have. We won by NOT blasting away. Now we've unzipped our fly, and Iran couldn't be happier. Trump and Netanyahu took the bait, and Iran being a master baiter, knows other masterbaters when they seem them. The only bright spot in all of this is Russia has been exposed as a crap-fest military force, and their options are mostly non-existent. Too bad Trump's head is up Putin's butt, this could almost be fun.
 
Iran has correctly identified the strategy to deal with Trump, and everyone else - Democrats, enemies and allies should copy the playbook:

when he tries to play Chicken with you, rip out the steering wheel.

Iran refusing any talks forces Trump to deliver instead of just bloviate.
 
What do you imagine the difference to be? And why is that difference relevant here?
International law. Territorial integrity.

It's a critical difference, and it's a form of conflict that needs to be handled unlike a war between countries if you want to win.

America's failure in the War on Terror should be the obvious lesson
 
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This does not report Iran as a country initiating a war against other nations. It claims (many dubious claims included e.g. 9/11) involvement in non state action. Iranian involvement in assassinations is no different from israel's or the US involvement in assassinations round the world. Israel and the US have assassinated far more people than Iran. Israel and the US both fund and arm insurgent / terrorist / resistance groups round the world. None of these actions when carried out by Israel or the US are viewed as Israel or the US attacking other countries. There should be a consistency in definition.
 
I mean, if @Planigale believes Iran is a not state sponsor of terror, has not repeatedly initiated hostilities with other countries by this means, nor supported other nations in their own wars of aggression, then there's not much more to be said.
There is a difference between funding and arming insurgents such as Contras, Kurdish groups, Afghani militias (which the US does, which are as much terrorist groups as groups supported by Iran, arguably the US is a much bigger state sponsor of terrorism than Iran). However there is generally regarded as being a difference between supporting resistance against an invading and oppressive army e.g. hezbollah resistance to the Israeli army in Lebanon and actually launching an attack on a country using armed forces as Iraq, Israel and the US have done on Iran. Iran hasn't invaded any other country.
 
You are negotiating with yourselves, Iranian military seemingly tells Trump

The spokesperson for Iran's Khatam al-Anbiya Central Headquarters, the country's main military command (without mentioning the US and Trump’s name) has talked about "the self-proclaimed global superpower" - saying "do not call your defeat an agreement".

Ebrahim Zolfaghari has said in a video message published by Iranian outlets today that "has the level of your internal conflict reached the point where you are negotiating with yourselves?"...

He added that "someone like us will never come to terms with someone like you. Not now, not ever".

 
You missed the obvious point. Suicide attacks have been our blind-spot since 1945. 9-11 happened because we always assumed they'd plant a bomb, or park one outside, and run. The idea of hijacking an airliner and turning it into a missile was a Tom Clancy plot-point, but not something we ever trained nor war gamed. And I know Iran had nothing to do with 9-11, how about you drop into the conspiracy theory 9-11 board sometime (I used to live there).

As far as Beirut went, the point was it was a suicide bomber who exploited an easy target. The target was easy because we never considered someone would drive a truck into the building, and die with it.

In the mid-1990s my friend and I spun up a consulting group to assess security for private companies. He was ex-military. We'd survey buildings, monitor security for responses, etc. In our free time we war-gamed nightmare scenarios. We gamed destroying bridges in San Francisco Bay, wrecking the airport, cutting of major highways, damaging electrical substations. My masterpiece involved burning a huge chunk of San Francisco to the ground by hijacking a gasoline tanker truck. We were really good at mayhem. But all of our attack involved pulling them off, and escaping to live another day/

But we were humbled on 9-11-2001. Al Qaeda pulled off a masterpiece that continues to pay them dividends. It never occurred to us to use suicide attacks. And we were just like the professionals at every government LE. and intelligence agency: Two Dimensional in a Four Dimensional battlefield.

After 9-11, we added suicide attacks to our assessment, and we found our potential success rate increased. My attack on San Francisco went from two trucks to seven or more with suicide drivers. And the beauty of this was even if the attacks never happen, the US, and other governments have to spend tons of money, and infringe on basic freedoms to have an hope of preventing the suicide attacks. In short, terrorists can win today simple by existing. Even if we kill them, they win...So we kill them. But we deal with Al Qaeda and ISIS on our own terms.

Iran, and their sycophant proxies have been handled discretely since the 1980s. We have always downplayed Iran, being firm when necessary, but never crossing the line. We know they want us to take a swing at them, they always have. We won by NOT blasting away. Now we've unzipped our fly, and Iran couldn't be happier. Trump and Netanyahu took the bait, and Iran being a master baiter, knows other masterbaters when they seem them. The only bright spot in all of this is Russia has been exposed as a crap-fest military force, and their options are mostly non-existent. Too bad Trump's head is up Putin's butt, this could almost be fun.
Thanks for this, I get where you are coming from now.
 
Mockler: Do you agree that we've won? He said we've won. Yes or no?

Jennings: If you consider a condition destroying their military capabilities…

Mockler: We haven't. If that's true, why can't the strait of hormuz be open if their military is destroyed?

Hunt: If it is true that we have won, why are we sending the 82nd airborne?

 

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