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Ed Israel/US Attacks Iran /Yet Another Country/Iran

Steve said:
It is the country responsible for Trump, and was headed that way a long time before Trump. It is a country that uses violence and civilian deaths to further its political agenda. Countries bombed by the USA since WW2:

Korea 1950-53
China 1950-53
Guatemala 1954
Indonesia 1958
Cuba 1959-60
Guatemala 1960
Belgian Congo 1964
Guatemala 1964
Dominican Republic 1965-66
Peru 1965
Laos 1964-73
Vietnam 1961-73
Cambodia 1969-70
Guatemala 1967-69
Lebanon 1982-84
Grenada 1983-84
Libya 1986
El Salvador 1981-92
Nicaragua 1981-90
Iran 1987-88
Libya 1989
Panama 1989-90
Iraq 1991
Kuwait 1991
Somalia 1992-94
Bosnia 1995
Iran 1998
Sudan 1998
Afghanistan 1998
Yugoslavia – Serbia 1999
Afghanistan 2001
Libya 2011
Iraq and Syria 2014 –
Somalia 2011 –
Iran 2020 –
And currently......

Seems that a lot of people have ample reason to hate the USA.
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The Australians aren't particularly wild about us either, if recent threads here are any indication.
 
Thermal said:
The Australians aren't particularly wild about us either, if recent threads here are any indication.
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Oh yeah. There are a lot of folks in other countries who have watched the USA for many years in horror as to what goes on there. At least they haven't, as yet, had the USA subject them to that peculiarly American form of diplomacy by projectile. None of those folks are confident they won't have that experience in the not too distant future.
 
Official statement from the Administration:
The US had to attack Iran pre-emptively, because Israel was going to attack it pre-emptively with or without US support, which would have triggered a pre-emptive Iranian attack against US assets in the Region.

I think Trump&co. are setting Netanyahu up to take the blame for every bad outcome of this whilst reserving any possible credit for themselves.
In any case, it will not go down well with the MAGA base that Israel gets to force the US into open warfare when it wants, not when the US wants.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Official statement from the Administration:
The US had to attack Iran pre-emptively, because Israel was going to attack it pre-emptively with or without US support, which would have triggered a pre-emptive Iranian attack against US assets in the Region.

I think Trump&co. are setting Netanyahu up to take the blame for every bad outcome of this whilst reserving any possible credit for themselves.
In any case, it will not go down well with the MAGA base that Israel gets to force the US into open warfare when it wants, not when the US wants.
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And so Iran has attacked US assets in the region. The US logic seems.......lacking.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Official statement from the Administration:
The US had to attack Iran pre-emptively, because Israel was going to attack it pre-emptively with or without US support, which would have triggered a pre-emptive Iranian attack against US assets in the Region.
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"They started it! Or, well, we're pretty sure they eventually would have!"

And wtf, US assets? The whole goddamned planet is a US asset in one form or another.
 
Thermal said:
"They started it! Or, well, we're pretty sure they eventually would have!"

And wtf, US assets? The whole goddamned planet is a US asset in one form or another.
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and no evacuation, even when they clearly expected attacks.

As Trump and Hegesth would have said, if they had the words:" "Theirs is not to reason why, theirs is but to do and die."
 
The Great Zaganza said:
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That's your "no evacuations"? Yeah, no. When fighting, the military often has to be in harm's way. And defenses are never perfect, sometimes the enemy succeeds. That alone says little to nothing about the operation itself. The enemy got a hit in. That happens in war.
The Great Zaganza said:
but just be honest for a second: do you think this was a sane operation to start, and worth the deaths and injuries and loss of material?
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If the final total US military lives lost stands at 6, that will be a bargain. I don't know how much material we're spending (neither do you), but it's worth a fair amount to disable Iran's offensive capabilities, and it's worth a lot to guarantee they never get nukes.
The Great Zaganza said:
Do you support Trump starting a war ?
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As has been pointed out, he didn't start it. He's trying to finish it. I was pessimistic about our capabilities to do so, but so far it's been going pretty well.

ETA: and as a bonus, this is also a serious blow to both Russia and China.
 
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Jack by the hedge said:
Cold war went on for decades too.
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Why did we tolerate that? Because it was OK that it went on for decades?

No. Because the USSR was a nuclear armed state, and turning the cold war hot would have been apocalyptic.

Iran is not nuclear. Taking out the mullahs may be bloody (mostly for them), but not apocalyptic. Not if we do it before they go nuclear.

Jack by the hedge said:
Lucky for us we didn't have the stable genius Trump back then, to start bombing the Soviet Union to distract us from some sordid scandal.
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The Epstein files keep taking out Democrats, and you still think somehow it's going to sink Trump?
 
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Thermal said:
Great. Can we get back to how he is leading the killing of brown children in Iran (when he is not shooting down our guys)?
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Thermal said:
Arguably secondary crusades, with political ends. In the 21st century, the ideology is in the public consciousness as anti-brown Muslim.
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Thermal said:
The Australians aren't particularly wild about us either, if recent threads here are any indication.
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Ziggurat said:
That's your "no evacuations"? Yeah, no. When fighting, the military often has to be in harm's way. And defenses are never perfect, sometimes the enemy succeeds. That alone says little to nothing about the operation itself. The enemy got a hit in. That happens in war.

If the final total US military lives lost stands at 6, that will be a bargain. I don't know how much material we're spending (neither do you), but it's worth a fair amount to disable Iran's offensive capabilities, and it's worth a lot to guarantee they never get nukes.

As has been pointed out, he didn't start it. He's trying to finish it. I was pessimistic about our capabilities to do so, but so far it's been going pretty well.

ETA: and as a bonus, this is also a serious blow to both Russia and China.
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God, you are defending that the Trump adminsitration had no plans to evacuate US civilians in case of crisis?
You are drinking the Kool Aid by the gallon.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
Cold war went on for decades too.

Lucky for us we didn't have the stable genius Trump back then, to start bombing the Soviet Union to distract us from some sordid scandal.
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Bombed a bunch of other places tho, as part of the cold war. And the best time to bomb Iran is before they get nukes and set up another cold war. We all saw what the Soviet Union did, to the countries it was able to drag under its nuclear umbrella. Nobody wants Iran to have the same opportunity.
 
dudalb said:
God, you are defending that the Trump adminsitration had no plans to evacuate US civilians in case of crisis?
You are drinking the Kool Aid by the gallon.
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...any particular reason you have three unrelated quotes from me in there?
 
dudalb said:
God, you are defending that the Trump adminsitration had no plans to evacuate US civilians in case of crisis?
You are drinking the Kool Aid by the gallon.
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What are you talking about? The example TGZ gave of people not evacuated weren't civilians.
 
Steve said:
Oh yeah. There are a lot of folks in other countries who have watched the USA for many years in horror as to what goes on there. At least they haven't, as yet, had the USA subject them to that peculiarly American form of diplomacy by projectile. None of those folks are confident they won't have that experience in the not too distant future.
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And what website did you get that list from?
And I see you do not want to go case by case and think ANY us military action since 1960 is wrong.
Thanks for reminding me, diespite the stupidity of the right, why I am not a militant Lefty.
 
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