What did Democrats do wrong?

[Reformed Offlian]

"Tell me more about these things you've heard that Trump did, and then found out wasn't true." isn't even closely related to " comment on the billions trump has stolen from the taxpayers. or the crypto stuff. selling pardons. doj and fbi actively covering up child sex trafficking rings. the election fraud stuff."

The latter were examples of former (unless, I suppose, you're telling us that you personally somehow hadn't heard about them before). Even if you think the allegations lack merit, saying they "aren't even closely related" is nonsensical.

Ironically, your complete twisting of what was said is a perfect example of the dishonesty I was talking about... Ignoring you now for the dishonesty, and rechecking my settings to see why I still got a notification after I turned notifications off.

It really is funny how a group of people will lie so often and so badly, and then whine about "why do people not like us or vote for us?" Truly odd behavior.

Oh, good, you're ignoring me now. Well, I guess I'll just get to continue to critique your posts in this forum unchallenged.

 

[wareyin]

No, I didn't join in. I pointed out it was happening. Anything I have said is because its true and improtant.

better keep that strawman away from open flames.

Yes, but you keep pushing the former.

Literally did everything that was asked this past election and you people are still attacking. If that's not Blue MAGA, I don't know what is.

Obviously, informing people didn't work. I can lead a horse to water but I can't make him not be deaf dumb and blind to obvious problems.

Your second sentence contradicts your claim to have "literally done everything that was asked." You were asked to stop sabotaging the Dems during the general. You're proud to say you were running around amplifying how bad you thought Harris was on Gaza and how little Biden was protecting Lina Khan. Well, how did your "true and important" criticism help Gaza?

How did "just pointing out" that Biden wasn't supporting Khan work out for her? Biden actually spent 2024 refusing to fire her despite massive pressure from billionaire donors, but the guy you helped elect fired her on his first day. It's frankly astonishing how hard you are working to remain deaf, dumb, and blind to the obvious result of your actions.

 

[wareyin]

Most people recognize transpeople as *trans*. Which is entirely different from recognizing them as being *the opposite sex of what they actually are*.

Most people aren't trying to force trans men to use the women’s room or trans women to use the men’s. The bigoted folks who do want that sure seem itching to take on the job of checking what's in everyone else's underwear a bit too eagerly.

 

[wareyin]

Keep up the "if you're not with us, you're against us" rhetoric. Keep mocking people's desire for officeholders who actually listen to them as a foolish wish for a "perfect unicorn candidate". It's just what minority voters already frustrated by their lack of representation need to hear from white moderates pretending to care about them. That's sure to win more votes.

It's convenient that you don't give any diamonds about the Democratic establishment; it spares you the trouble of criticizing the people most deserving of criticism, and from whom it is most appropriate and reasonable to expect remedy.

Again I ask: how did your "vote winning" efforts to tell everyone that Dems didn't earn their votes work out for minority voters?

 

[Reformed Offlian]

Again I ask: how did your "vote winning" efforts to tell everyone that Dems didn't earn their votes work out for minority voters?

The criticisms in question came after the election, not before, so I don't understand the question.

 

[wareyin]

I'm somewhat new here. I made an account to respond to something else a few months ago, and decided today to see what this site is all about.

For this topic, I'll start by giving context about me. I've never voted until 2020. I've never registered with either Party and think Independent voter is an accurate description for me. My first time voting was in local elections, I voted for the Democrat for our Mayor (Tecklenburg). In the next and latest election, I voted for Shahid, who is also a Democrat; but he lost and there was a second runoff vote between Tecklenburg and Cogswell (Republican), and I voted for Cogswell. I've voted based on issues, not Party. For the POTUS, I voted for Trump over Kamala.

To the question of why I didn't vote for Kamala, I'm personally tired of hearing Trump did something, looking it up, and finding out it wasn't true. I've lost all trust in the media on anything Trump related. I'm tired of the double standards and chaos, and the constant "If I don't get what I want, I'll hurt myself or someone else, and it's your fault" arguments that for some reason are being treated like legitimate arguments or reasons to shift blame.

Looking up Kamala, she has zero accomplishments. Even then, the few they try to list as an accomplishment, like her being "black" (not an accomplishment) is questionable. Both Candidates had comparable experience, with Trump as 45 and Kamala as former VP, so it left very little question for me on what we could expect to see from them; and I don't see how anyone can say another 4 years of autopen leadership controlled by ?? would have been the best choice.

I'm not sure which boxes that explanation would check. If anyone has questions, feel free to ask, but "don't troll me bro."

Ok, you "looked it up" and found that nothing that was reported about Trump that was negative was true? What exactly did you look up that was "untrue"? And then you go on about either the Biden autopen conspiracy theory or that some nebulous "other" would actually be in control? Yeah, in the same vein that the other "independent" here in the thread is actually a font of right wing propaganda, you too are an independent.

Also, which was it? Did Harris have "zero accomplishments" or was her experience "comparable" to being President?

 

[wareyin]

The criticisms in question came after the election, not before, so I don't understand the question.

I see. You were critical of the Dems not helping minorities enough after you helped make sure they have no political power to actually help minorities. That's much better.

 

[wareyin]

Cool story, bro.

Hey, Wareyin! Another "independent" for your big tent!

Yep! Another "independent" spouting off right wing disinformation and uniformed defenses of Trump and/or MAGA!

 

[Reformed Offlian]

I see. You were critical of the Dems not helping minorities enough after you helped make sure they have no political power to actually help minorities. That's much better.

What are you even talking about? How did I help make sure they have no political power?

 

[Beelzebuddy]

What are you even talking about? How did I help make sure they have no political power?

Yep! Another "independent" spouting off right wing disinformation and uniformed defenses of Trump and/or MAGA!

Yeah, no ◊◊◊◊. It's what they always do.

 

[bruto]

The criticisms in question came after the election, not before, so I don't understand the question.

Sorry, but that makes little sense. Plenty of people had opinions on whom to vote for and why before the election, and I saw plenty of references, for example, to the protest component of the vote that led to Brexit. In any case, you can't really criticize how people voted until they've actually done so.

 

[wareyin]

What are you even talking about? How did I help make sure they have no political power?

And now we've fringe reset to 'wut? how can being hyper critical of the Dems from and among the left depress voter turnout for the Dems'? Sigh.

 

[Donal]

Your second sentence contradicts your claim to have "literally done everything that was asked." You were asked to stop sabotaging the Dems during the general. You're proud to say you were running around amplifying how bad you thought Harris was on Gaza and how little Biden was protecting Lina Khan. Well, how did your "true and important" criticism help Gaza?

How did "just pointing out" that Biden wasn't supporting Khan work out for her? Biden actually spent 2024 refusing to fire her despite massive pressure from billionaire donors, but the guy you helped elect fired her on his first day. It's frankly astonishing how hard you are working to remain deaf, dumb, and blind to the obvious result of your actions.

So, silence? Is that it? What exactly are we supposed to do if we see them making a massive error? If I'm on a bus and the driver is going full speed at a brick wall, can I say something? Or would that make me responsible for the resulting crash?

Are Kal Penn and David Axelrod pro MAGA now? They were both former Obama administration members who publicly criticized Biden and Harris after making numerous attempts to reach out behind the scenes and getting shut out. And those 2 are off the top of my head because they were in a recent conversation I had.

So what should we do? Should we keep our mouths shut until the Democrats lose again?

 

[wareyin]

So, silence? Is that it? What exactly are we supposed to do if we see them making a massive error? If I'm on a bus and the driver is going full speed at a brick wall, can I say something? Or would that make me responsible for the resulting crash?

Are Kal Penn and David Axelrod pro MAGA now? They were both former Obama administration members who publicly criticized Biden and Harris after making numerous attempts to reach out behind the scenes and getting shut out. And those 2 are off the top of my head because they were in a recent conversation I had.

So what should we do? Should we keep our mouths shut until the Democrats lose again?

Well, you already tried not "keeping your mouth shut" and it resulted in an easily predicted disaster. What could a different tactic hurt?

I know you think you were some voice of reason trying to save the bus, but you were one of the ones throwing luggage at the driver while the brick wall was approaching. You got exactly what you campaigned for: a punished Democratic Party. It just so happens that punishing them means we all have to suffer now. But hey, you got to feel good yelling your "true and important" criticisms. I note again: you say you were critical about Biden not protecting Khan enough from billionaires, and that handed a billionaire the ability to fire her. Brilliant tactical move.

 

[Donal]

Well, you already tried not "keeping your mouth shut" and it resulted in an easily predicted disaster. What could a different tactic hurt?

So, yes, telling the bus driving about that wall results in crashing into the wall. Brilliant.

I know you think you were some voice of reason trying to save the bus, but you were one of the ones throwing luggage at the driver while the brick wall was approaching.

No, really, just paid my fare and was riding until I noticed the large immovable object approaching.

You got exactly what you campaigned for: a punished Democratic Party.

A Kamala Harris presidency?

It just so happens that punishing them means we all have to suffer now. But hey, you got to feel good yelling your "true and important" criticisms. I note again: you say you were critical about Biden not protecting Khan enough from billionaires, and that handed a billionaire the ability to fire her. Brilliant tactical move.

Yes or no: is anyone allowed to criticize the Democratic candidate?

 

[wareyin]

So, yes, telling the bus driving about that wall results in crashing into the wall. Brilliant.

No, really, just paid my fare and was riding until I noticed the large immovable object approaching.

A Kamala Harris presidency?

Yes or no: is anyone allowed to criticize the Democratic candidate?

By "criticizing the Democratic candidate" you think you were campaigning for a Harris presidency, huh? What was that about leading a horse who wants to remain blind, deaf, and dumb to the obvious, again?

Sure, you're "allowed" to be critical. I just wish you'd own up to the predictable results of those criticisms. Again, how'd being critical of Biden over not protecting Khan from billionaires end up? You handed a billionaire the ability to fire her on day one. You keep trying to frame this as a "yes or no" question about the right to speak, but the real question is why you're so proud of a strategy that resulted in the immediate destruction of everything you claim to be fighting for.

 

[Segnosaur]

I'm somewhat new here. I made an account to respond to something else a few months ago, and decided today to see what this site is all about.

For this topic, I'll start by giving context about me. I've never voted until 2020. I've never registered with either Party and think Independent voter is an accurate description for me.

Alex, I will go with "things that never happened" for 200.

You see, you CLAIM to be some sort of independent voter, but from the quality of your post, I think most people here would recognize that that is just a smoke screen, your attempt to give yourself some credibility. But this is a skeptic site, and it won't work.

To the question of why I didn't vote for Kamala, I'm personally tired of hearing Trump did something, looking it up, and finding out it wasn't true.

Please give examples of things that Trump was accused of that "weren't True".

Where did you you find evidence that those things "weren't True"?

Do you think ALL Things that he was accused of "weren't True"?

Do you recognize that there were accusations made by republicans that also "weren't True"?

Looking up Kamala, she has zero accomplishments.

Well, lets see what Harris's accomplishments are...

Degree in political science and economics
- Seems to me like having a president who understands how the economy works might actually be a good thing

Law degree and worked as a prosecutor for several years
- Hmm, someone who understands the law. Will know about the constitution, precedents, how the law is applied in a practical sense

Served in congress
- So, she's someone who not only knows the process in actually crafting new laws, but also knows many of her congress critters (which may
prove useful in any sort of negotiations.)

Served on the senate budget committee
- So, experience in knowing how the government budget works

Served on the select committee on intelligence
- Which would give her inside knowledge of organizations like the CIA and FBI

Served as vice president
- Experience with the executive branch. Will have first hand experience how cabinet meetings work, how decisions are made.

Even then, the few they try to list as an accomplishment, like her being "black" (not an accomplishment) is questionable.

Except of course nobody of note is considering "being black" as an accomplishment.

As I pointed out, her education, work experience, and years in politics would have given her a wide range of skills... economics, the law, and government functions.

Both Candidates had comparable experience, with Trump as 45 and Kamala as former VP, so it left very little question for me on what we could expect to see from them...

Ummm.. how about no?

As I pointed out, Harris has had years of accomplishments.

Now lets take a look at the "accomplishments" of Stubby McBonespurs, shall we?

Prior to the 2016 election:

He had some sort of business degree. However, he was described by a professor as a poor student. And even if he did "learn a lot", he ended up bankrupting multiple casinos. So whatever he supposedly "learned' in school, he didn't really use it.

And even if he wasn't such a poor businessman, governments function differently than businesses. Being good at one doesn't necessarily mean you will be good at the other.

And lets look at his first term, shall we?

When he left office:
- There were more people unemployed than when he first took office
- The fiscal deficit increased every year he was in office
- The trade deficit increased

Now you might try to blame that on covid... But as I pointed out, many of the problems (increasing fiscal and trade deficit) when all the way back to the start of his term (before covid)

So yeah, Trump may have had the "accomplishment" of being president, but his record in that office is pretty darn poor.

and I don't see how anyone can say another 4 years of autopen leadership controlled by ?? would have been the best choice.

The fact that you think "the autopen" is an issue is pretty much evidence that you are not some "unbiased moderate" evaluating the leaders on their qualities, but someone who has fully accepted the MAGAchud mindset.

 

[Segnosaur]

Ummm... go back and look at what i wrote. I admitted that someone who marches under a Hamas flag and chants "death to israel" can at least be considered a terrorist supporter. (The only reason they might not be classified a 'terrorist' is that, depending on how you define 'terrorist', a person might think it involves actually committing violent attacks. But, as I said, they are still a "terrorist supporter".)

Fair point, I misread. I suppose it's good to know that you believe that a rather large portion of democrats are terrorist supporters.

Ummm.. how about no?

There are a lot of democrats who are protesting Israeli actions in Gaza. But there is not some 'large portion' protesting under the Hamas banner and calling for terrorist actions against civilian targets.

It is quite possible for someone to say "perhaps Israel shouldn't be bombing Palestinian targets indiscriminately" without them actually saying "I think Hamas was right to kill babies".

On the other hand, there is no such nuance with the right-wing protesters in the charlotsville protests. The meaning of the swastika flag was very clear, and still the "fine people" decided to protest under it.

 

[d4m10n]

Most people aren't trying to force trans men to use the women’s room or trans women to use the men’s.

You may want to recheck the polling data on this claim.

 

[Donal]

By "criticizing the Democratic candidate" you think you were campaigning for a Harris presidency, huh? What was that about leading a horse who wants to remain blind, deaf, and dumb to the obvious, again?

Again, are we allowed to criticize the Democratic candidate?

Sure, you're "allowed" to be critical. I just wish you'd own up to the predictable results of those criticisms. Again, how'd being critical of Biden over not protecting Khan from billionaires end up? You handed a billionaire the ability to fire her on day one. You keep trying to frame this as a "yes or no" question about the right to speak, but the real question is why you're so proud of a strategy that resulted in the immediate destruction of everything you claim to be fighting for.

So, we're allowed but are completely responsible, even when the results were due to the campaign continuing to do the thing we are warning about?

And how can you say it was the fault of people like me offering the mildest of critiques when the party itself won't even release the findings of the post-mortem (if they even did a comprehensive post-mortem)? If they actually had data to back up the "blame twitter lefties" theory, you would be linking to it every day. All the centrist\moderate\establishment\conservative\blue MAGA democrats would be airdropping copies over every place 2 or more progressives can be found.