• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Cont: The thread for stupidity from GQP politicians who don't have their own thread Part II

Norman Alexander said:
Why anyone takes the slightest bit of notice or reports anything Loomer says is beyond me. She's the female equivalent of the horrible racist uncle at the Thanksgiving dinner.
Click to expand...
I think that the biggest reason is how much influence she's had over the Trump Administration. It's not that she's some random racist off the street, it's that she's had such real impact on the government.
 
Norman Alexander said:
Why anyone takes the slightest bit of notice or reports anything Loomer says is beyond me. She's the female equivalent of the horrible racist uncle at the Thanksgiving dinner.
Click to expand...
If a few years from now we find out that she enjoys parties where she was center of attention of several well endowed gentlemen of African ancestry, I for one, would not be shocked.
 
arthwollipot said:
I've reviewed all four of the Gospels, and of the two that actually describe Jesus' birth (Matthew and Luke), neither of them mention Mary's age.
Click to expand...
It's based off the language used to describe her in the annunciation and jewish marriage custom of the time. Mary was betrothed to Joseph meaning that she had recently started menstruating, ie she was a young teenager. Jewish custom was that a coiple were betrothed after the bride's first menstruation and married about a year later.
 
While I am no great defender of Christianity, I think the surmise about Mary's age is a bit of a stretch. What is possible is not the same as what is always done. And even if true, one could of course make a case for hebephilia rather than pedophilia here, and one could also consider that an actual god is not a person, and miracles need not reflect the rules for others to follow. But this is the Bible, folks. Getting into detail on this kind of stuff is like arguing about the aerodynamics of a Tie fighter, or the metallurgy of the magic ring.

That said, I think the whole idea of condemning a person for having some religion you find fault with is a stupid excuse for not being able to come up with a rational argument. No Abrahamic religion, and likely no religion at all, is free of idiocies.
 
Gulliver Foyle said:
It's based off the language used to describe her in the annunciation and jewish marriage custom of the time. Mary was betrothed to Joseph meaning that she had recently started menstruating, ie she was a young teenager. Jewish custom was that a coiple were betrothed after the bride's first menstruation and married about a year later.
Click to expand...
If I remember my catholic theology Mary never menstruated, because Mary was free of sin and menstruation would have meant she was unclean and menstruation was punishment for the sin of Eve. So one cannot draw any conclusion about her age of betrothal or marriage based on an assumption about the age of menarche. (FWIW the age of menstruation has fallen since then probably associated with childhood obesity.; it was likely around fourteen then, and is around twelve now.)

J Pediatr Adolesc Gynecol. 2016 Dec;29(6):527-530. doi: 10.1016/j.jpag.2015.12.002. Epub 2015 Dec 17.

Abstract​

Menarche denotes the onset of the female reproductive capacity. The age that menarche occurs is mostly attributed to the interaction of genetics and various environmental factors. Herein, the author describes the evolution of the age at menarche from prehistoric to the present times. Data from skeletal remains suggest that in the Paleolithic woman menarche occurred at an age between 7 and 13 years, early sexual maturation being a trade-off for reduced life expectancy. In the classical, as well as in the medieval years, the age at menarche was generally reported to be at approximately 14 years, with a range from 12 to 15 years. A significant retardation of the age at menarche occurred in the beginning of the modern times, soon after the industrial revolution, due to the deterioration of the living conditions, with most studies reporting menarche to occur at 15-16 years. In the 20th century, especially in the second half of it, in the industrialized countries, the age at menarche decreased significantly, as a result of the improvement of the socioeconomic conditions, occurring at 12-13 years. In the present times, in the developed countries, this trend seems to slow down or level off.
Click to expand...
www.statnews.com

The new menstruation: Girls are getting their periods earlier and less regularly

A new study shows that U.S. girls have been getting their first period earlier and earlier over the last 55 years — and it has taken longer for their periods to become regular.
www.statnews.com www.statnews.com
 
arthwollipot said:
...okay.
Click to expand...
Both apologetics and scholars will tell you she was probably between 12 and 14, both will argue from the same textual sources in the Bible (Luke and Matthew) plus they will point to non-biblical texts that whilst they didn't make it into canon where around when much of the NT was being written down that said she was 12. Remember it is only in the last few decades that such an age has become to feel quite uncomfortable. The compilers of the Bible wouldn't have felt at all uncomfortable with her being 12 and knocked up by god.
 
i suppose the christian god probably wouldn't be too uncomfortable with it either by default
 
Y'all might as well speculate on whether --and if so, when-- Galadriel menstruated. C'mon y'all, fictional characters: if it's not in the story, it's not important to the story.

(Having recently watched The Rings of Power I am, however, open to the possibility that Elrond menstruated. Constantly.)
 
TragicMonkey said:
Y'all might as well speculate on whether --and if so, when-- Galadriel menstruated. C'mon y'all, fictional characters: if it's not in the story, it's not important to the story.

(Having recently watched The Rings of Power I am, however, open to the possibility that Elrond menstruated. Constantly.)
Click to expand...
Only a minority (about 1:50) of mammalian species menstruate; whilst I am prepared to accept that elves are mammals on a superficial inspection, it is still more likely than not that they do not menstruate but reabsorb their uterine lining if not fertilised when on heat. Even fewer species have a menopause, even though Galadriel was several millennia in age I'm pretty certain she wasn't menopausal.
 
Planigale said:
Only a minority (about 1:50) of mammalian species menstruate; whilst I am prepared to accept that elves are mammals on a superficial inspection, it is still more likely than not that they do not menstruate but reabsorb their uterine lining if not fertilised when on heat. Even fewer species have a menopause, even though Galadriel was several millennia in age I'm pretty certain she wasn't menopausal.
Click to expand...
ETA
Perhaps Mary was an elf and that is why she didn't have periods?
 
Planigale said:
ETA
Perhaps Mary was an elf and that is why she didn't have periods?
Click to expand...
You don't have to do anything truly biological here. The doctrine has Mary conceived and born without original sin, and a special case from long before God got into her pants. Religion short circuits all arguments. As TM says, if it isn't in the story, it just isn't.
 
Darat said:
Both apologetics and scholars will tell you she was probably between 12 and 14, both will argue from the same textual sources in the Bible (Luke and Matthew) plus they will point to non-biblical texts that whilst they didn't make it into canon where around when much of the NT was being written down that said she was 12. Remember it is only in the last few decades that such an age has become to feel quite uncomfortable. The compilers of the Bible wouldn't have felt at all uncomfortable with her being 12 and knocked up by god.
Click to expand...
Yeah I considered asking for specific citations but I realised that the issue was probably a lot more complicated and decided to leave it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom