Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

[Ziggurat]

In this thread, which is That Thread. Newcomers invariably don't know what the hell you are talking about and need it explained, because the backwards structure is not heard outside tranny-bashing circles.

Who has needed it explained?

And your definition of what counts at "tranny bashing" is also bull ◊◊◊◊.

You still don't need to. I still linked earlier to an online dictionary definition to remove all doubt and for your viewing enjoyment.

The same dictionaries which changed the definition of "woman" to cater to the TRAs? Yeah, they can suck it too.

 

[Thermal]

Who has needed it explained?

I do believe p0lka just got done trying to clear up terminology you guys use.

And your definition of what counts at "tranny bashing" is also bull ◊◊◊◊.

I haven't given one, so we can chalk that up to the voices in your head, too.

The same dictionaries which changed the definition of "woman" to cater to the TRAs? Yeah, they can suck it too.

No, they changed it in deference to the medical community. I get you anti-science types don't want to acknowledge the global medical consensus, but you can suck that too. Go with Professor ◊◊◊◊ Saw and the eugenics crew. No one will be able to tell the difference!

 

[John Freestone]

The same dictionaries which changed the definition of "woman" to cater to the TRAs? Yeah, they can suck it too.

Interestingly, that particular dictionary hasn't, but I've seen plenty that have. It gives several definitions of "woman", but none of them is loony.

I think this fits with what I said earlier - the move from "transwoman" and "transman" to "trans woman" and "trans man" is to further confuse normies into thinking these are people of the named type, just as "fat" makes no difference to the meaning of the noun, "woman", it just adds information. I suspect this might have coincided with increasing recognition of "transwoman" as the doublespeak it is. People understood that "Transwomen are women!" was fishy, because they realised "trans" meant "the opposite of" and thus men - hell, no, they said, keep them out of my daughter's changing room!

"Trans women" makes "trans" look like a mere modifier. Obviously (some) women are women. Maybe they're talking about butch women - yeah, they can go in.

 

[Thermal]

Interestingly, that particular dictionary hasn't, but I've seen plenty that have. It gives several definitions of "woman", but none of them is loony.

I think this fits with what I said earlier - the move from "transwoman" and "transman" to "trans woman" and "trans man" is to further confuse normies into thinking these are people of the named type, just as "fat" makes no difference to the meaning of the noun, "woman", it just adds information. I suspect this might have coincided with increasing recognition of "transwoman" as the doublespeak it is. People understood that "Transwomen are women!" was fishy, because they realised "trans" meant "the opposite of" and thus men - hell, no, they said, keep them out of my daughter's changing room!

"Trans women" makes "trans" look like a mere modifier. Obviously (some) women are women. Maybe they're talking about butch women - yeah, they can go in.

You might want to have a look at how and when the term evolved. I did.

 

[John Freestone]

You might want to have a look at how and when the term evolved. I did.

I've been watching the evolution of the terms for years. You think we're stupid enough to believe your bluster, don't you? You think if you just keep dodging from one subject to another, not engaging in honest conversation, you'll kind of maybe win something or other. You know it's not the argument, but something. I wonder if you even know what it is you're trying to win.

 

[John Freestone]

TRA brownie points.

 

[Ziggurat]

I wonder if you even know what it is you're trying to win.

He has no coherent policy he wants to advance other than 'not that', and he admits he's conflicted about the whole issue. I think the only reason he posts is to convince himself he's better than us.

 

[Rolfe]

When me and someone else are both talking about one person, for example Helen, and I say 'so what do they want for Christmas?', that's incorrect usage of they? I've been using it like that all my life.

It's downright weird. You know Helen is female, why would you not say "she"? I'll bet nearly all English speakers unaffected by the genderwoo virus would.

 

[Rolfe]

There is no such thing as 'gender' except as a synonym of 'sex'.

Well, there is, as a grammatical term. English is very unusual in having the gender of the nouns (masculine, feminine and neuter) map very closely to the sex of the object. In most languages many many inanimate objects are grammatically masculine or feminine. Some languages, such as French, don't have a neuter gender at all.

Fun fact. In Gaelic the word for woman, boireannach, is masculine. The word for beard, feusag, is feminine.

Another fun fact. The use of the third person singular pronoun is the most hard-wired thing in language. The usage in your native language that you acquired as a child is extremely difficult to shake, and people who are otherwise fluent in a second language frequently slip up on that one. I heard of a Finnish woman, married to an Englishman and living in England, who often referred to her son as she and to her daughter as he. (I didn't hear if she used "it"!) (Third person pronouns are not gendered in Finnish.)

The unnatural usage demanded by the trans lobby turns your brain into a pretzel and I for one am not playing that game.

 

[Thermal]

He has no coherent policy he wants to advance other than 'not that', and he admits he's conflicted about the whole issue.

Yeah, um... that's exactly how that works.

I think the only reason he posts is to convince himself he's better than us.

Wrong again. I'm trying to talk about this outside of tribal posturing. This clearly ain't the place for that.

 

[smartcooky]

There is no such thing as 'gender' except as a synonym of 'sex'.

Not exactly, but in terms of sex, yes, you are correct.

Gender was originally used ONLY to refer to language, particularly in the Romance languages and some Germanic languages, for example in French "La" for feminine nouns - la maison (house), la voiture (car), la table (table), la vie (life), amd "Le" for masculine nouns - le bateau (boat), le vin (wine), le fromage (cheese), le bâtiment (building).

This is a scan from my printed copy of the 1982 Oxford English
dictionary. Note that "Gender" had only this one meaning 1982.

 

[smartcooky]

I'm trying to talk about this outside of tribal posturing.

There's only one poster posturing here... Scooter... and he ain't any of us gender crits!!

 

[John Freestone]

Well, there is, as a grammatical term. English is very unusual in having the gender of the nouns (masculine, feminine and neuter) map very closely to the sex of the object. In most languages many many inanimate objects are grammatically masculine or feminine. Some languages, such as French, don't have a neuter gender at all.

Fun fact. In Gaelic the word for woman, boireannach, is masculine. The word for beard, feusag, is feminine.

Another fun fact. The use of the third person singular pronoun is the most hard-wired thing in language. The usage in your native language that you acquired as a child is extremely difficult to shake, and people who are otherwise fluent in a second language frequently slip up on that one. I heard of a Finnish woman, married to an Englishman and living in England, who often referred to her son as she and to her daughter as he. (I didn't hear if she used "it"!) (Third person pronouns are not gendered in Finnish.)

The unnatural usage demanded by the trans lobby turns your brain into a pretzel and I for one am not playing that game.

Hehe, thanks for that, fellow pendant! Yes of course, I was in this instance meaning "no such thing as 'gender' as a direct attribute of human beings analogous to sex... blah blah." Yes, a lot of people outside the Anglosphere can't understand what all the fuss is about gendered personal pronouns, while they select the correct one in their language for everything inanimate.

 

[smartcooky]

Hehe, thanks for that, fellow pendant! Yes of course, I was in this instance meaning "no such thing as 'gender' as a direct attribute of human beings analogous to sex... blah blah."

Yup, and that shows the claim made by certain posters, that the term "transgender" has been around for many decades, is complete bull-◊◊◊◊. As you can see from the last two line of the highlight in the clip I posted ...Gender ≡ Sex

 

[John Freestone]

Not exactly, but in terms of sex, yes, you are correct.

Gender was originally used ONLY to refer to language, particularly in the Romance languages and some Germanic languages, for example in French "La" for feminine nouns - la maison (house), la voiture (car), la table (table), la vie (life), amd "Le" for masculine nouns - le bateau (boat), le vin (wine), le fromage (cheese), le bâtiment (building).

This is a scan from my printed copy of the 1982 Oxford English
dictionary. Note that "Gender" had only this one meaning 1982.

Well I think you missed a bit. It ends with a second use, "(joc.) one's sex." That is interesting. Without checking, I'm fairly sure "joc." stands for "jocular", so at one time (presumably from long before 1982) it was noted that people used "gender" instead of "sex" occasionally for mild comic effect, borrowing from the linguistic use, at least that's all I can think. I had only heard of the switch for prudish reasons to avoid the unmentionable.

See how we discuss and learn things even from our possible errors, @Thermal

 

[John Freestone]

He has no coherent policy he wants to advance other than 'not that', and he admits he's conflicted about the whole issue. I think the only reason he posts is to convince himself he's better than us.

Yeah, um... that's exactly how that works.

Wrong again. I'm trying to talk about this outside of tribal posturing. This clearly ain't the place for that.

So 'not that' and 'I'm better than you.'
Like every other TRA, everything you say gives you away, and every accusation is a confession.

E.g....
You: Let transwomen pee where they want!
Us: What about the danger to women from the more unsavoury types?
You: Beat those ones up.
...
You: "tranny-bashers!"

So you are in fact the only one here I've seen advocating bashing TIMs, about whom you use the most insulting language, which you pretend is our language.

 

[smartcooky]

Well I think you missed a bit. It ends with a second use, "(joc.) one's sex." That is interesting. Without checking, I'm fairly sure "joc." stands for "jocular", so at one time (presumably from long before 1982) it was noted that people used "gender" instead of "sex" occasionally for mild comic effect, borrowing from the linguistic use, at least that's all I can think. I had only heard of the switch for prudish reasons to avoid the unmentionable.

See how we discuss and learn things even from our possible errors, @Thermal

C'mon fellow pedant! Read the last line of post 15,614

 

[John Freestone]

C'mon fellow pedant! Read the last line of post 15,614

I had only read 15,611 by that point, which is what I replied to. ETA It ended with the scan, and that ended with, 'Note that "Gender" had only this one meaning 1982.'

 

[John Freestone]

Is there a trophy?

 

[smartcooky]

Is there a trophy?

As Jezza would say... "You win the Interwebz!!"