Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

[p0lka]

Is 'transmale' a slur? If so then I'm sorry to have used it, oops.

 

[Thermal]

I don't think so. It's more of a 'what's this now?' kind of thing.

Trans identified male (TIM) and trans identified female (TIF) have been broadly adopted by the bashing community. so they have well-known meanings.

 

[p0lka]

The singular usage of "they" is correctly confined to situations where the sex of the person is either unknown (as in your example) or indeterminate, for example when describing a hypothetical situation.

When me and someone else are both talking about one person, for example Helen, and I say 'so what do they want for Christmas?', that's incorrect usage of they? I've been using it like that all my life.

 

[Thermal]

Nearly every attempt to push trans rights forward proceeded through word games, especially via the courts.

There is a somewhat massive difference between interpreting ambiguous language in the law, and a grown ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ man acting like he doesn't know that 'they' has been used as a gender neutral pronoun for goddamned generations.

 

[smartcooky]

If the person had said that they didn't want any males in the room instead of men, do you think it might have been harder for the bosses to argue about it?

Nope. Would have made no difference - NHS is fully captured.

 

[smartcooky]

No, it's mixing up gender and sex together as being the same thing;

They are the same

which is not going to solve the problem, instead of treating them differently as they are.

No. Separating them exacerbates the issues. It allows TRAs to seize upon gender as the important part, and declare sex as unimportant. Then everything can be based in self declared gender and you end up with men being in places they have no business being.

 

[smartcooky]

That is precisely the problem with "trans identifying male". For decades, the 'trans' part meant 'transitioning' towards the identified gender

Utter bollocks. It has never meant that - you just made that up from whole cloth!

The "trans" in transgender is a prefix - It comes from the Latin meaning "across, beyond, or through". other examples are

"transcontinental" - going across a continent
"transcend" - going beyond limits
"transparent" - light passing through

It is NOT a shortening of "transitioning", which is a word that literally uses the same ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ prefix!!

and a transgender identified woman is still used in the literature to describe MtF transpeople.

Examples of this literature?

Using 'transgender identified male' sounds like someone who is transitioning/transitioned to male

Only to you

Transwoman is the general label used for decades and universally to describe a MtF transperson.

Only about two decades - i.e. about the last five minutes in terms of language going back thousands of years!


Notice its use has begun falling off... want to take a guess what its replacing it?

The sole benefit of using 'trans identified male' is that it is universally considered a slur, so it's users are dogwhistling their bashing position unambiguously. That's handy to get debaters sorted quickly.

Rubbish. It is the only term that accurately describes observable, objective scientific reality.

Also, "universally" infers "everyone", but the vast majority f those use the term correctly (which is increasing) to accurately describe the truth - that ALL so-called "transwomen" are actually, irrefutably males.

I too use transgender identified male as it is more accurate, and because the term "transwoman" (actually trans woman) is used by transgender identifying males to co-opt the word "woman" so that they can try to equate themselves to women in order to impose their unwanted physical presence in places where thy have no business being.

I consider the word "transwoman" tio be grossly misogynistic and deeply demeaning and unsulting to women - even more so for the TRAs preferred term, "trans woman".

 

[smartcooky]

Is 'transmale' a slur? If so then I'm sorry to have used it, oops.

No, it isn't. It would be unwise to believe everything anything he tells you

 

[Thermal]

LOL, case in point. The defense rests.

BTW, the actual etymology of the term started from the German 'transvestit' in 1910, influenced by the 18th century French word travesti. The rest (transexual, transgender, etc) seem to be borrowing and morphing from the original word. It doesn't seem that anyone ever constructed the term on it's own. But you likely knew that, while electing to free-float some contrarianism. I mean, there is no 'across, beyond, or through' that even makes sense with regard to gender.

Transvestit - Wiktionary, the free dictionary

en.wiktionary.org

 

[smartcooky]

<inane irrelevant bollocks snipped>

there is no 'across, beyond, or through' that even makes sense with regard to gender.

If course there is... "across gender" works perfectly -

 

[Thermal]

If course there is... "across gender" works perfectly -

LOL, the factual cited etymology is "irrelevant bollocks' and you go merrily on with your fantasy that the word was intentionally constructed with no evidence at all. You're priceless.

 

[Ziggurat]

That is precisely the problem with "trans identifying male".

No, it isn't. Everyone here knows exactly what it means, there is zero ambiguity.

The sole benefit of using 'trans identified male' is that it is universally considered a slur

It is not universally considering a slur. The TRAs might universally call it a slur (and even there I won't take your word for it), but they don't get to tell me what I mean. I don't know why you think they earned that authority.

 

[Thermal]

No, it isn't. Everyone here knows exactly what it means, there is zero ambiguity.

In this thread, which is That Thread. Newcomers invariably don't know what the hell you are talking about and need it explained, because the backwards structure is not heard outside tranny-bashing circles.

It is not universally considering a slur. The TRAs might universally call it a slur (and even there I won't take your word for it),

You still don't need to. I still linked earlier to an online dictionary definition to remove all doubt and for your viewing enjoyment.

but they don't get to tell me what I mean. I don't know why you think they earned that authority.

"...neither more nor less."

 

[John Freestone]

Point one was referring to the red part of my post in which I used the words I have taken to use in this thread to lessen confusion, but I can use transwoman instead if you want? If i'm actually causing more confusion by using transmale i'll switch. I thought I was being clearer by using transmale, as that refers to the sex of the transperson and not the gender vagueness.

Point two was referring to the underlined part of my post in which I used the words of the judgement, not my own.

Ye gads.

See my previous post for the explanation of point one and two.

The judgement says they didn't do anything wrong as far as I can tell, what do you think they did wrong? as I'm not seeing it.

A simple, 'no' would suffice. But you dare not say it. Men abusing women's boundaries is fine by you as long as you don't have to describe it properly.

No, it's mixing up gender and sex together as being the same thing; which is not going to solve the problem, instead of treating them differently as they are.

There is no such thing as 'gender' except as a synonym of 'sex'.

Edit: look at the previous post about buck angel, they are more manly than I will ever be, they've got muscles and a beard and everything! But they are female. Gender and sex are independent of each other as one is social, the other is biological.

So, it seems that, to you, 'gender' means 'which sex someone looks most like'. Instead of saying, "She's a very manly woman," or "She's a very manly-looking woman," you decide that she has a female sex but a male gender, and then use "they" to talk about her. OK, I mean, you do you, but it's mental.

 

[John Freestone]

That is precisely the problem with "trans identifying male". For decades, the 'trans' part meant 'transitioning' towards the identified gender, and a transgender identified woman is still used in the literature to describe MtF transpeople. Using 'transgender identified male' sounds like someone who is transitioning/transitioned to male, which is the opposite of your intent. As you say, ya really can't run around with personal glossaries to interpret what individuals mean when using terms in their opposite sense.

The adjectival term I use (when I remember) is "trans-identifying". It can be applied to "man", "woman", "boy", "girl", "male", or "female". Nouns are the labels we give things as their primary identity (subjectively, of course - identifying is a subjective activity). So adding "trans-identifying" changes "male" no more than "self-levitating" would. So it's not a personal glossary I'm requiring anyone to refer to: "male", etc., are already defined, and "trans-identifying" is perfectly comprehensible to anyone who hasn't been living under a stone for the last fifteen years. If you can't use adjectives and nouns, it's not my problem.

Your lot - the TRAs - have corrupted language - although in a kind of logical way - such that adding "trans" to something is intended to reverse what follows (despite trying hard not to). They did that, I didn't reverse anything, and I use the terms I do specifically to avoid colluding with the confusion is introduces. As has been pointed out on this thread several times, it has been common until recently for most people to think a "transwoman" was a woman. It took most of society a long time to realise that "transwoman" uses "trans" to mean "opposite of" or "not" (and the TRAs brought in "cis" to mean "same as", which of course all of us are). This is a clue to interpreting, "Transwomen are women" as false, since it obviously means, "Men are women."

I think your understanding of it (assuming it's actually genuine, which I doubt) is based on the false idea that people do something called "transitioning," from one sex to another, as in MtF or FtM, but you haven't thought enough about what it means for a "male" to "transition" to being a "female" - or you must be as confused about biology as you are about language.

 

[John Freestone]

Is 'transmale' a slur? If so then I'm sorry to have used it, oops.

No, it isn't. It would be unwise to believe everything anything he tells you

Also, grow a pair. Focus on critical thinking instead of self-censorship.

 

[John Freestone]

When me and someone else are both talking about one person, for example Helen, and I say 'so what do they want for Christmas?', that's incorrect usage of they? I've been using it like that all my life.

Well, assuming you know Helen is female, hell yeah, that's weird. Why wouldn't you ask what she wants for Christmas? Is English not your first langage?

 

[John Freestone]

I still linked earlier to an online dictionary definition to remove all doubt and for your viewing enjoyment.

What, that Wiktionary one? This is priceless - did you bother to put "transwoman" in the search box there?

Noun

transwoman (plural transwomen)

(often derogatory, offensive) Alternative spelling of trans woman.

Coordinate term: transman

(My bold) Oh, if only you'd all remembered to put a space in there, you wouldn't have threatened the mental health and probably actual lives of so many people!

Trans woman is often spelled with a space, with trans as an adjective modifying the noun woman, similar to Asian woman, tall woman, fat woman, etc.

See how that works? "Trans-identifying" / "Trans-identified" (adjective modifying...) "male."
I use a hyphen to emphasize adjectival phrases. We're wary of man-eating sharks, but we don't mind a man eating shark.

 

[Thermal]

What, that Wiktionary one? This is priceless - did you bother to put "transwoman" in the search box there?


(My bold) Oh, if only you'd all remembered to put a space in there, you wouldn't have threatened the mental health and probably actual lives of so many people!


See how that works? "Trans-identifying" / "Trans-identified" (adjective modifying...) "male."
I use a hyphen to emphasize adjectival phrases. We're wary of man-eating sharks, but we don't mind a man eating shark.

You do realize we weren't talking about the term transwoman, with or without a space, right?

 

[John Freestone]

You do realize we weren't talking about the term transwoman, with or without a space, right?

What?! How dare you suggest it doesn't matter whether there's a space in it?!

You linked to the dictionary after telling us "trans-identifying male" / "trans identified male" were "slurs". I'm referring you to the page where the same dictionary tells us "transwoman" is "often derogatory/offensive", and good people are supposed to say "trans woman" (it emphasizes that putting "trans" there doesn't do any harm to the "woman", despite meaning "opposite to"). I thought that was quite funny.