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Germany Denies Giving U.S. Report on Iraq

Elind

Philosopher
Elind
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S.E. USA. Sometimes bible country
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/27/AR2006022700348.html

http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article348179.ece

This is almost funny if it weren't so sad. Let's give the Germans the benefit of the doubt and say that there was no such report or information in the first place, but instead of saying "no comment", they fall over backwards to show that they would never help the US even if it was in the middle of an irreversible war.

Clearly they make no distinction between disagreeing with a supposed ally, and actively helping someone like Saddam by withholding important information.

Has any German official said they would have given such information to the US, if they had had it?

:cry1
 
Oh just as well. I'm sure the CIA could have easily found someone willing to torture the information out of the Germans.
 
Elind said:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/27/AR2006022700348.html

http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article348179.ece

This is almost funny if it weren't so sad. Let's give the Germans the benefit of the doubt and say that there was no such report or information in the first place, but instead of saying "no comment", they fall over backwards to show that they would never help the US even if it was in the middle of an irreversible war.
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Where did they say that? It says they insist they didn't have the plans and therefore didn't pass them on, not that they had them, but didn't pass them on or would not have passed them on if they'd had them. Besides if you think really hard you might be able to think up a couble of reasons why a nation wouldn't be to forthcoming about the activities of it's secret service.

Elind said:
Clearly they make no distinction between disagreeing with a supposed ally, and actively helping someone like Saddam by withholding important information.
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Aside from the fact that you apparently don't know the meaning of "actively helping", you might want to notice that if the news are correct they did make that distinction. If the news aren't correct they probably never had the report to pass on in the first place, and the distintion is therefore irrelevant.
 
When it comes to reportage concerning the workings of secret services why would you believe anything?
 
Kerberos said:
Where did they say that? It says they insist they didn't have the plans and therefore didn't pass them on, not that they had them, but didn't pass them on or would not have passed them on if they'd had them. Besides if you think really hard you might be able to think up a couble of reasons why a nation wouldn't be to forthcoming about the activities of it's secret service.
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Come on. Don't pretend you don't know what I'm saying. There are plenty of other news reports on this and the Germans are falling over themselves to say they wouldn't have lifted a finger to help the US in any way, even if they had information that could have helped.
 
Ed said:
When it comes to reportage concerning the workings of secret services why would you believe anything?
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I have to side with Ed here. It's kind of the public official's job to deny things that the intelligence service is doing. I wouldn't read much into it either way.
 
They helped us, but they didn't want anyone finding out about it, huh?

I guess this leak will teach them a lesson.

Thanks, Mr. Leaker!
 
Elind said:
Come on. Don't pretend you don't know what I'm saying. There are plenty of other news reports on this and the Germans are falling over themselves to say they wouldn't have lifted a finger to help the US in any way, even if they had information that could have helped.
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I repeat: Where did they say that? Link? Quote? Anything?
 
aerocontrols said:
They helped us, but they didn't want anyone finding out about it, huh?

I guess this leak will teach them a lesson.

Thanks, Mr. Leaker!
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Also aside from perhaps not wanting to be seen helping you, the agent might still be active.
 
Kerberos said:
I repeat: Where did they say that? Link? Quote? Anything?
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I believe he's referring to the German government's insistence that they would not violate their neutrality. In 2002, Gerhard Shroeder campaigned on that issue - that he would not help the US.

If he, in fact, did so, then that makes him a liar, on perhaps his biggest campaign promise.

Here's the Guardian:


Elmar Brok, a German Christian Democrat who chairs the European parliament's foreign affairs committee, said that if the report turned out to be true, questions would have to be raised about the German secret services' honesty. He said: "I hope it's not true because then the credibility of Schröder and [Joschka] Fischer [the foreign minister at the time of the war] would be totally destroyed."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1719604,00.html
 
aerocontrols said:
I believe he's referring to the German government's insistence that they would not violate their neutrality. In 2002, Gerhard Shroeder campaigned on that issue - that he would not help the US.

If he, in fact, did so, then that makes him a liar, on perhaps his biggest campaign promise.

Here's the Guardian:


Elmar Brok, a German Christian Democrat who chairs the European parliament's foreign affairs committee, said that if the report turned out to be true, questions would have to be raised about the German secret services' honesty. He said: "I hope it's not true because then the credibility of Schröder and [Joschka] Fischer [the foreign minister at the time of the war] would be totally destroyed."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1719604,00.html
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I considered that, but Elind ishe's clearly talking about now.
 
Kerberos said:
Also aside from perhaps not wanting to be seen helping you, the agent might still be active.
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Oh, COME ON, for Ed´s sake!

Are you stupid or what? Do you really think - even for one moment - that ANY European could EVER have a valid reason for doing ANYTHING that these good, loyal, patriotic, American conservatives don´t agree with? Or worse, for something that they could twist into "supporting those bad guys"?

Bah. Never! Not ever! They´re all evil. EVIL, I tell you. After all, they´re liberal leftist progressive terrorist-huggers.

(:rolleyes: )
 
aerocontrols said:
I believe he's referring to the German government's insistence that they would not violate their neutrality. In 2002, Gerhard Shroeder campaigned on that issue - that he would not help the US.

If he, in fact, did so, then that makes him a liar, on perhaps his biggest campaign promise.

Here's the Guardian:


Elmar Brok, a German Christian Democrat who chairs the European parliament's foreign affairs committee, said that if the report turned out to be true, questions would have to be raised about the German secret services' honesty. He said: "I hope it's not true because then the credibility of Schröder and [Joschka] Fischer [the foreign minister at the time of the war] would be totally destroyed."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1719604,00.html
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I'm not saying they can't deny it, or even that they shouldn't, but it should be in the line of "no comment", period. Instead the news reports I see are them flailing to deny that they would ever have given information that would help the US, as opposed to witholding it so as to help Saddam.

To say that one can simply call that neutrality is pitiful. Neutrality is a word that is synonymous with craven when used as an excuse in such situations, since the very act of witholding it would mean that you are helping one side over the other.

It's one thing to actively send agents to risk their lives to help one side or another, and it is another thing entirely if you happen to come across information and then act by not acting.

Who needs friends like that?
 
floating the possibility of the germans giving the us something and then having it denied might be part of a calculus whose intention is to say to the towel guys that "you can't really be comfortable with an assurance the a western democracy will not help the US"..... or it could be a trial baloon in advance of german cooperation or it could be a plant by the German SS to embaress the prior administration, or the US for the same reason or it could be entirely made up to embaress germany or the us or ...

You get the idea, any of these are equilikely.
 
Ed said:
When it comes to reportage concerning the workings of secret services why would you believe anything?
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Like Ed said.

Besides, who do we believe here?

Have the Germans lied to us lately? (Don't recall that.)
Has the Shrub administration lied to us lately? (Um, do recall that.)
 
Ed said:
floating the possibility of the germans giving the us something and then having it denied might be part of a calculus whose intention is to say to the towel guys that "you can't really be comfortable with an assurance the a western democracy will not help the US"..... or it could be a trial baloon in advance of german cooperation or it could be a plant by the German SS to embaress the prior administration, or the US for the same reason or it could be entirely made up to embaress germany or the us or ...

You get the idea, any of these are equilikely.
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That's the kind of message I want to hear from on-high. Hey, who knows, whatever, what do I care, sort out your priorites before you come see me again, and don't anyway, what part of delegation do you not understand?
 
CapelDodger said:
That's the kind of message I want to hear from on-high. Hey, who knows, whatever, what do I care, sort out your priorites before you come see me again, and don't anyway, what part of delegation do you not understand?
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well, if it came from a delegation it must be true.:rolleyes:
 
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