John Freestone
Graduate Poster
This. Is. Your. Whole. ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊. Problem.
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Transwomen are not Women - Part 15
- Thread starter d4m10n
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smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Here's some reading for @p0lka
I have posted this list before, but no harm in a repeat posting for those who have not seen it before...
This is a partial list of academics who have been targeted by outrage mobs and other academics for expressing ideas. Their consequences for speaking scientific truth have ranged from being fired, having papers retracted for no reason, deplatforming and ruination of their careers to threats of violence and death.
Colin Wright
An evolutionary biologist. Driven out of academia by an Twitter outrage mob for arguing in favour of a scientific truth, namely, that there are only two biological human sexes.
Dr. Kathleen Stock OBE.
Denounced and targeted as transphobe by over 700 of her academic colleagues for the crime of advocating Gender Critical viewpoints, specifically that transwomen should be excluded from places like women's locker rooms and shelters, and rape crisis centres, as well as for calling for an end to the assocation between UK universities and Stonewall.
Kathleen Stock: University of Sussex free speech row professor quits
Protesters had tried to have Professor Kathleen Stock sacked for her views on gender identity.
www.bbc.com
Professor Selina Todd
History professor at Oxford University's St. Hilda College. Targeted by a Twitter outrage mob who had her "no-platformed" by the Oxford International Women's Festival, at which she had been due to speak. The event's organisers told her the decision was due to pressure from trans activists. Apparently, she had the temerity to state that there is a need for women-only spaces because of past violence against women by natural born males. She had to be given security because some of those nice, cuddly, inoffensive people that a number of posters here love to support, made threats of physcial violence agianst her.
Oxford professor given security following threats
A FEMINIST Oxford professor has been given security guards to protect her following threats from transgender activists.
www.oxfordmail.co.uk
Prof Frances Widdowson.
A tenured Associate Professor in the Economic, Justice, and Policy Studies Department at Mount Royal University, Canada. Fired in 2021 for trying to stand up for the liberal science method and for academtic freedom
No Forbidden Zones
Tyrel Cameron Eskelson illustrates the dire the state of academic freedom in Canada.
www.afaf.org.uk
Professor Nathaniel Hiers
College of North Texas. Fired for calling microaggressions "garbage". A lawsuit is ongoing against the College and Department Chair for violation of his rights to speech and academic freedom.
Court: University of North Texas professor’s First Amendment retaliation lawsuit over firing for calling ‘microaggression’ flyers ‘garbage’ can continue
A First Amendment lawsuit filed by a former University of North Texas adjunct professor over microaggressions can continue, a federal district court judge held.
Professor Kathleen Lowery.
Removed from her position as Associate Chair for Academic Programs in the Department of Anthropology at the University of Alberta. Her crime? She expressed her disgreement with the idea that biological sex is irrelevant. She said that housing trans-identified men in women's prisons is not fair to women prisoners and puts women at risk.
U of A professor says she was dismissed over views that biological sex trumps transgender identity for policy decisions
A University of Alberta associate professor says she was dismissed from an administrative role over her views that transgender identity doesn’t trump biological sex…
edmontonjournal.com
Laura Tanner
Graduate student in Feminist Studies, UCSB.
Attacked by the outrage mob in an attempt to remove her from campus and teaching, because she stated the scientific and biological facts that there are only two biological sexes, and that a man can never become a woman.
UCSB Teaching Assistant Under Fire From Colleagues, Students for Transphobic Tweets | The Daily Nexus
The Twitter account, which features the T.A.'s photograph and name, contains hundreds of tweets and retweets espousing transphobic views.
dailynexus.com
Stephen Gliske
Neuroscientist, UMich. Targeted for presenting a new theory of gender dysphoria that offended some trans activists and their academic sychophants.
Censorious Academics Try Again
Help stop another censorious academic outrage mob.
www.psychologytoday.com
Linda Gottfredson
Psychology, University of Delaware. Disinvited from a conference in Sweden for presenting research showing that there are group differences in average IQ test scores and for reviewing research showing that intelligence is heritable. In fact, intelligence is indeed heritable to some extent, but apparently, saying so triggered some snowflakes in Swedish academia.
Why Was Linda Gottfredson's Keynote Cancelled?
A profound discomfort with empirical findings emerging from intelligence research lies at the heart of the disinvitation.
quillette.com
Lisa Littman
MD & behavioral scientist, Brown U
Fired from a consulting position because her paper on Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria butthurt a few transgender activists, professionals, and academics.
Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria
A researcher found that parents claimed their teenage kids expressed transgender identification out of the blue. All hell broke loose. Science improved. Maybe.
www.psychologytoday.com
Now this is just a tiny selection of the thousands of academics who have been fired, lost positions, been forced to retract papers, and received threats of violence and death because they dared to challenge the Holy Creed of the Gender Ideology Cult.
Academia is supposed to be a marketplace where ideas, no matter how controversial, are freely exchanged and debated with vigour. But it is rapidly becoming an echo chamber for trendy left liberal prgressives, a place where any dissent must be stamped on, and those who dissent crushed along with it.
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d4m10n
Penultimate Amazing
I did.
I would argue that psychological reactance is the more likely outcome of online ridicule, but since it is pointless to argue with an entire group of people who've crossed over from good faith engagement to ridicule and pile-ons, the person will leave the thread having been reaffirmed in their prior beliefs.
This would be a significant improvement in places like New Jersey where the state levies penalties against gyms or spas who continue to segregate by sex rather than gender.
p0lka
Illuminator
I haven't read the response yet I will do so after this. A simple response to the SA article is that they reference a one off instance then move on to mention the difficulty of some parents having the difficulty of having to choose whether they bring up their child as boy or girl (gender indoctrination, let them be themselves) according to someone. Then they continue in that vein citing 'some studies' 'some researchers' some person I happened to meet on the street that agrees with me. It's not serious, it's a joke of an article.
p0lka
Illuminator
Yeah, I have to ignore the overwhelm urge to just accept it cos it agrees with me as that way lies madness, but yeah that's a good response.
I especially like the
That's the way to do it.
p0lka
Illuminator
Inevitably there will be a separation between sex and gender culturally, it's just taking a longer time than expected.
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
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Why would that be inevitable? This idea seems to be a matter of faith, like the idea that civilization only progresses in one direction. There is no reason to believe it's true. And even if it happens, there's no reason to think it will be perpetual.
Perhaps we are touching on what I described earlier, your belief which you are trying to protect in the face of evidence.
p0lka
Illuminator
It sounds like a war the way you put it?
Do you really think there's been infiltration of everything that's not you? I don't see these TRas anywhere yet you see them everywhere and they're a violent threat to society?
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Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
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Of course it's a joke. That's the whole point of bringing it up. You've basically been claiming that people can't argue absurdities. But they demonstrably will. Which is why your idea that we can fix the issue with sex labels is delusional.
p0lka
Illuminator
What belief am I trying to protect in the face of evidence? I'm genuinely curious as I learn things about myself all the time.
p0lka
Illuminator
It was brought up as an example of a claim that 'top scientific journals' had been promoting the idea that sex wasn't binary. I'm glad you agree it's a joke.
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
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I don't know. I'm not sure you know. But you're emotionally invested in a factually wrong claim, and you won't let go of it. And the only motivation I can think of for why you would do that is that letting go of your wrong claim threatens some core belief of yours. Possibly connected to the idea that there's an arrow to history, that it only goes "forward" not "backward" (this is in relation to "social advancement", not time travel). But that part is speculation, it might be something else. Maybe you'll be able to figure it out, but you probably have to come to terms with being wrong first, and I doubt you're ready to do that yet.
Yes. That matches what I said. And it contradicts your position that the TRA's can't argue absurdities. They have proven very capable of doing exactly that. Which is why the idea you've been pushing, that relabelling things "female" instead of "women" would fix anything, is factually and obviously wrong.
p0lka
Illuminator
What is my factually wrong claim? Do you think that I think that the these spooky TRA's (that have infiltrated everything apparently) can't argue absurdities? Not at all? I'm of the opinion that if someone starts saying science things that are not backed up by science then you can just ignore it until it's actually backed up. Not that people cant argue absurdities, but that you can ignore people that do.
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Emily's Cat
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
Free rein, rein it in, toe the line, there are lots of misplaced homonyms out there that make my brain itch.
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
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I just told you: the claim that changing labels from "women" to "female" will do anything to fix the problem or even improve the situation.
Ignoring political power doesn't work. It's got nothing to do with whether or not their claims are correct. Being wrong, even demonstrably wrong, has never actually been an impediment to political power.
The TRA's have a seat at the table not because anything they say makes sense, not because their concept of gender as separate from sex is in any way useful, not because "woman" refers to gender and not sex, but because they have political power. Pull your head out of your ass and accept that reality.
Emily's Cat
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
Very much this.
Over the past decade, this has played out with almost every peaking I've witnessed. Almost all cases are ones that start from an assumption of what it ought to mean, based on something that makes sense. The most common is that people think that "transwoman" ought to mean a male who has had complete genital surgery and hormone therapy and has undergone many years of intensive psychological evaluation wherein a reliable authority has signed off on them having a wrong-sex mind and this was the only possible way they could live a happy life. Because that would make sense. That would be something that it seems like a reasonable and caring person would be willing to accommodate. And they'll stick by that belief in what ought to be until they have a personal experience that disabuses them of that notion.
Other "ought to bes" that I've run across:
- Youth who get puberty blockers or cross-sex hormones prescribed have gone through a lot of mental health evaluation and all comorbidities have been ruled out, and it takes months or years before a doctor will write a prescription
- Prisons only move fully surgically altered males into female establishments, and then only after a huge amount of vetting to be sure that it's safe to do so
- Everyone today who identifies as transgender has known they were transgender since they were very young children and just didn't know the words for it, but they've always been like that because it's innate
- Reliable and repeatable science shows that transgender people have brains that are like the opposite sex
- Nobody would ever pretend to be trans for personal gain or to exploit rules
- Transgender identifying people know that they can't change sex, they're only talking about gender
Rolfe
Adult human female
Thermal likes "self-policing" because in his head it places him as the arbiter of who is in the right and who is in the wrong. He gets to decide whether you are a bigot harassing a "peaceful transwoman" he believes you should tolerate in your female intimate space, or a woman being harassed by a creepy man, and then beat up the wrongdoer. (Guess which position he's more likely to adopt.)
He hasn't even imagined the fights that will ensue when another Thermal takes the opposite view and insists on enforcing that.
He hasn't even imagined the fights that will ensue when another Thermal takes the opposite view and insists on enforcing that.
John Freestone
Graduate Poster
You've said that if people make the claim that sex is a spectrum, just laugh, they can't argue it, and now you're suggesting we ignore it. Unfortunately, that has been causing dreadful damage, so no can do, sorry.
You also seem to be reacting strongly against the idea that gender ideology infiltrated deeply into a significant number of institutions in 'Western' culture (not "everything", of course). But it has infiltrated into a lot of important ones: universities, schools, governments, businesses, NGOs, media outlets, and these are some of the most influential organisations in society. This is why they have power: they took it. We have documentary evidence that they devised underhanded methods to sneak it in, disguised as gay-rights-2.0, avoiding publicity, but funding university chairs, inventing gender studies courses pushing it, and funding NGOs to provide cash-strapped schools with outsourced sex and social education - where they indoctrinated children with the idea they must introspect on what gender they are, and that it might be different from the "boy" or "girl" they thought they were.
They infiltrated every left-leaning party in Britain, and are still rife there. I can't vote for Labour or the Liberal Democrats or the Green Party, because all three are transgender activist parties, and even the Conservatives were all in with it for quite a number of years! And this is freaking Terf Island! The National Health Service is plastered with rainbows - on hospitals, on staff badges - and they were hard at it rewriting all their patient information leaflets with gendered terms, like "birthing parent" and "chestfeeding" and "people with prostates" and "people with cervixes," and staff were being trained to ask for preferred pronouns. There were papers written about the need for "transmen" to continue on testosterone, despite the well documented danger to the unborn child, so that these pregnant women didn't suffer a return of their "gender dysphoria". Until the madness was bad enough that we started reviewing and reining it back in (but it's still rife now).
I'm wondering where on earth you live that you didn't notice any of the immense pressure on every member of society to toe the line, such that Parliamentary Ministers made ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ of themselves equivocating on what a woman was and if some had penises, and supposedly being relieved when the Supreme Court clarified it for everyone.
d4m10n
Penultimate Amazing
If the people in power didn't accept the core ideas of gender ideology a decade or two ago, it's worth asking how they were persuaded to do so—or at least pretend to do so.
(I suspect the answer will have to do with other ideas which they already accept, such as the validity of critical theories in general.)
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smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
It is. You really have no idea!
Strawman
When mainstream media reports crimes committed by transgender identified males as having been committed by "women," (with no mention that these "women" are in fact biological males) then you know that the mainstream media has drunk the trans kool ade!
When those transgender identified males are charged as women, and the court demands they be referred to by their female pronouns (on penalty of contempt of court) then you know that the justice system has also drunk the trans kool aid!
When/if those transgender identified males are found guilty, demand to be incarcerated in a Women's prison, and prison authorities meekly comply, then you know that corrections is another one that has drunk from the trans kool aid tap!
When women at universities and establishments of higher learning are harangued, persecuted, hounded out of their jobs, and have to suffer the onslaught of social media poutrage mobs, and their friends, family and themselves subjected to threats of violence and death, and all because they are gender critical - i.e. they recognize the obvious, observable scientific reality that there are only two sexes, then you know that academia has stocked up on the trans cool aid for the staff and students!
When women are punished by hospitals for referring to transgender identified male rapists as "he", or lose their job for daring to complain about a transgender identified male in their changing rooms, then you know that the health system drinks trans kool aid by the gallon!
When the government passes laws that enshrine the rights of transgender identified males to enter women's bathrooms, women's changing rooms, women's refuges and women's hospital wards, and allows them to compete in women's sports, then you know that the government has its very own trans cool aid factory
Then you're not looking hard enough.
Eggs and water balloons thrown as protesters face off at Women Will Speak rally in Melbourne
Victoria police said 20 protesters were outnumbered by 150 from another group, which hurled ‘water balloons at the speakers’
www.theguardian.com
One year since women's voices were shut down at the Albert Park Riot
“A year ago we were traumatised by the violence we experienced. But we stood up and fought back. We are here to stay.”
womensrightsparty.nz
