• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Trump's promised ICE raids have begun

See, Jake? Here’s a perfect spot where you can earn a little of that seven-figure income. I’ll even help you out:

Secretary Noem, that in no way, shape or form answers my straightforward question. Would it help if I asked again? Rephrased it? Gave you a couple hours to rack your brain?

Don’t continue on until she answers! She’s a public ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ servant who, while being offered a measure of respect, still needs to answer to the people through, in this instance, your role as an intermediary! That’s your job! To question her on the performance of hers!
After further reflection, Jake, I really have to wonder. She’s easily ducking and dodging your little questions, and she’s a lightweight. A 7th grader on the school newspaper could pin her down. Easy peazy Charmin squeezy. Kind of embarrassing. That is, unless you don’t really care. Unless you’re a lightweight too.
 
Last edited:
As I posted earlier in the favourite dramatic lines thread.

"You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common.
They don't alter their views to fit the facts.
They alter the facts to fit the views.
Which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering."
 
What felony? Cite to an actual statute.
Fleeing, resisting arrest, and impeding law enforcement are covered by 18 U.S. Code Chapter 49, 18 U.S. Code § 111.
ICE officers are recognized as Federal agents, so the statutes apply here.

Point to where in the statute it says <snip>
In Minnesota Law, Statute 609.065, 609.066, and 609.06, govern the use of force and self defense. Those are the only considerations I regard under this issue because any trial that involves the officer will hinge on their applicability. You're advocating for a charge of first degree murder, which in the eyes of the law requires premeditation and specific intent to commit said crime. As much as you want to kick and scream that this is how things played out, you have not demonstrated this intent and won't be able to based on the limited information you have. At least not as far as the legal debate is concerned.

You were quite happy as a fellow victim-blamer.
Just because I assess she broke the law doesn't mean I have to automatically agree with everything "my side" says about her being a terrorist. They are mutually exclusive issues. I don't see you pushing back on rhetoric comparing ICE and anyone that disagrees with you to neo nazi's. Do you agree with that characterization?

...the penalty for "trying to run off" is being shot in the face summarily by the arresting officer.
I have not argued for this. I'm not here to waste my breath on a strawman.
 
I think the second and third shots, the coup-de-gras if you will, pretty much telegraph the icehole's intentions.
As if his comment at the end weren't already evidence of malice.

And I have to disagree mildly with JayUtah that he "panicked'--I don't think he was scared at all.
Indeed. I mention panic (liberally coated with sarcasm) only because the right is telling us their idea of his probable mental state, which amounts to dancing daintily around the concept of panic. He was forced into a split-second decision which, they assure us, he wouldn't have made in hindsight or without the "PTSD" of his prior encounter. And this is supposed to be some kind of flex? If they are so certain a jury would acquit him on the merits, I wonder why they're trying so hard to make sure this never sees a jury.

...then he should not be carrying a weapon, because that is at the very least reckless behavior.
Reasonable force in this case (he says, lecturing the lawyer 😜) is the force a reasonable officer would have used in similar circumstances, without the benefit of hindsight. Disobedience to official policy and regulation governing your conduct is prima facie evidence of unreasonableness. If you break the rules, you are on the hook to show that your conduct was nevertheless reasonable; it's no longer presumed. As for recklessness—under the law it is knowing that something is dangerous and doing it anyway.
 
Last edited:
Fleeing, resisting arrest, and impeding law enforcement are covered by 18 U.S. Code Chapter 49, 18 U.S. Code § 111.
ICE officers are recognized as Federal agents, so the statutes apply here.
I already addressed that. That law requires those actions to be forcible. Mere flight is not forcible.

In Minnesota Law, Statute 609.065, 609.066, and 609.06, govern the use of force and self defense.
I already addressed those too.

You're advocating for a charge of first degree murder, which in the eyes of the law requires premeditation and specific intent to commit said crime.
Where did I advocate that particular charge? The proper charge would be manslaughter.

I have not argued for this. I'm not here to waste my breath on a strawman.
If you don't want to waste breath on straw men, start with your own.
 
Last edited:
ICE agents just threatened to shoot a U.S. citizen for exercising his First Amendment right to observe and film ICE activities… and it was all caught on camera.

In the video, agents come up to a man’s car after stopping in front and behind him, aggressively pounding on his window and yelling:

“This is your warning… stop ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ following us. You are impeding operations.”

The man says, “This is my house. I’ve got to get to my house.”

The agent then tells him, “This is your warning… go home to your kids.”

Then the camera pans to the other window, where another agent stands with his gun drawn.

Not holstered. Gun in hand.

The man rolls down his window and calmly says, “You should go to church.”

The agent replies, “You’re making bad decisions.”

And then the original agent comes back to the car yelling:

“You are not going to like the outcome. I guarantee that.”

“Go home to your children. It’s Sunday. Did you not learn from what just happened?”

 
Fleeing, resisting arrest, and impeding law enforcement are covered by 18 U.S. Code Chapter 49, 18 U.S. Code § 111.
ICE officers are recognized as Federal agents, so the statutes apply here.


In Minnesota Law, Statute 609.065, 609.066, and 609.06, govern the use of force and self defense. Those are the only considerations I regard under this issue because any trial that involves the officer will hinge on their applicability. You're advocating for a charge of first degree murder, which in the eyes of the law requires premeditation and specific intent to commit said crime. As much as you want to kick and scream that this is how things played out, you have not demonstrated this intent and won't be able to based on the limited information you have. At least not as far as the legal debate is concerned.


Just because I assess she broke the law doesn't mean I have to automatically agree with everything "my side" says about her being a terrorist. They are mutually exclusive issues. I don't see you pushing back on rhetoric comparing ICE and anyone that disagrees with you to neo nazi's. Do you agree with that characterization?


I have not argued for this. I'm not here to waste my breath on a strawman.
And you are basing this assumption that she was doing all of those things on what, exactly?
 

FOX: Where’s the protest against the regime that's killing people in the street right now?

Trent: They are doing those today. It’s called the ICE protests.

FOX: Are they talking about Iran at the ICE protests?

Trent: No, I think they are talking about the regime that is shooting people in the face

Ouch
 
You're advocating for a charge of first degree murder, which in the eyes of the law requires premeditation and specific intent to commit said crime.

Who the hell ever said that and when?! I specifically listed Murder II and I haven't seen anyone advocate for M1.

I have not argued for this. I'm not here to waste my breath on a strawman.
Oh, Irony.
 
No subtlety there. The lesson is "if you film us, we'll execute you."
And they have the support of their bosses. As far back as September last year
President Trump’s Department of Homeland Security (DHS) claims that making and posting videos of ICE agents as they disappear tens of thousands of immigrants from America’s streets, workplaces, and courtrooms without due process is an act of “violence” to be dealt with accordingly.

DHS Assistant Secretary for Public Affairs Tricia McLaughlin told the Center for Media and Democracy (CMD) that “videotaping ICE law enforcement and posting photos and videos of them online is doxing our agents,” and added: “We will prosecute those who illegally harass ICE agents to the fullest extent of the law.”
 
Minus the CSI effect, the witnesses and video amount to at least as much evidence as 99% of convictions in history. What's his defense, she was killed by a particularly vicious mosquito in the car that he was trying to defend her from and as the bullets have been 'lost' no-one can prove otherwise?
Transient mental derangement; PTSD, he had a flash back to being dragged by a car previously and in that flashback he thought he had a taser in his hand. At least that is what I would think could be a possible defence.
 

Back
Top Bottom