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Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

Ziggurat said:
You should. Because he's the source of most of TRA ideology, including the stuff you agree with.
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Yes thamk you we all know who Money is. And as we were not talking about him or his generations old work, I offer no defense of it nor do I... *checks notes* ...give a ◊◊◊◊.

What I do give a ◊◊◊◊ about is the way we interact with transpeople socially, and how we consequently form policies that impact them. Note the order of the ◊◊◊◊ giving. Leap frogging to the latter to slide in your views on the former without much scrutiny (or indeed saying them out loud) is unconstructive, and often a punk out.
 
Thermal said:
Yes thamk you we all know who Money is. And as we were not talking about him or his generations old work, I offer no defense of it nor do I... *checks notes* ...give a ◊◊◊◊.
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You appealed to the professionals. Money is still influencing those professionals you appealed to. If you don't care about Money, don't appeal to his acolytes.
Thermal said:
What I do give a ◊◊◊◊ about is the way we interact with transpeople socially,
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You are free to interact however you want to. Moreover, I will be nice to them if they are being nice to others. That has never been the problem.
Thermal said:
and how we consequently form policies that impact them. Note the order of the ◊◊◊◊ giving. Leap frogging to the latter to slide in your views on the former without much scrutiny (or indeed saying them out loud) is unconstructive, and often a punk out.
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It's not a punk out, it's a straw man. You consistently misrepresent my position, to make it seem like I want to be mean to people and just need an excuse. But that has never been the case. You are the one trying to shoehorn being nice into a policy recommendation that is not in fact nice at all.
 
Thermal said:
As opposed to say, millions of people who are 5'6" insisting they are 6'6" centuries ago and today?
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There are indeed millions of men who wish they were tall enough to not get filtered out of the app-based dating pool, but there is a lack of mental health professionals telling them that they need only identify as tall in order to invoke an emergent social norm requiring women to treat them according to identity instead of reality.
 
d4m10n said:
There are indeed millions of men who wish they were tall enough to not get filtered out of the app-based dating pool, but there is a lack of mental health professionals telling them that they need only identify as tall in order to invoke an emergent social norm requiring women to treat them according to identity instead of reality.
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BOOM!! 💣💥
 
Interesting think-piece over at the Memory Hole Archive:

Beginning around 2018 and cresting in 2023, the trans movement, and specifically its most hard-line self-appointed spokespeople, came to hold more cultural and institutional power than any LGBT activists ever had — and likely ever will again. What they did with that power was stage one of the most ambitious, audacious, and ultimately intolerable cultural coups in American history.​

Worth a read if you're into this topic. 📑
 
d4m10n said:
Interesting think-piece over at the Memory Hole Archive:

Beginning around 2018 and cresting in 2023, the trans movement, and specifically its most hard-line self-appointed spokespeople, came to hold more cultural and institutional power than any LGBT activists ever had — and likely ever will again. What they did with that power was stage one of the most ambitious, audacious, and ultimately intolerable cultural coups in American history.​

Worth a read if you're into this topic. 📑
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Well, this hard-hitting opening paragraph has definitely;y piqued my interest.

Every aspect of the social justice politics that dominated American culture between 2014 and 2023 provoked a reaction. The attacks on free expression from the political left led to an emboldened cancel culture from the right. The intersectional racecraft fueled a rise in white nationalism. The madness on display in universities, K-12 education, workplaces, and the press caused institutional trust to nosedive and helped shift the political winds. And the feminist culture wars did lasting damage to relations between young men and women. But nothing has produced a more ferocious backlash than the progressive left’s misadventures into militant trans activism. In the end, it was trans people themselves left holding the bag.​

I will read later as its Christmas morning here in New Zealand and besides the fact that I have better things to do than forum posting on Christmas Day, I have family (brunch) and friends (dinner) to visit.

So Merry Christmas to all fellow Gender Critical posters... and Thermal because I think he is probably Gender Critical at heart.

To the TRAs... what I want to say to you is not allowed, so no comment!
 
It's worth asking whether arguments predicated on the intense and privacy-deprived conditions of basic training should be applied to folks who transition much later in their careers while holding desk jobs and living in their own private homes, e.g. Lt Col Fram.
 
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d4m10n said:
It's worth asking whether arguments predicated on the intense and privacy-deprived conditions of basic training should be applied to folks who transition much later in their careers while holding desk jobs and living in their own private homes, e.g. Lt Col Fram.
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Why not? Should we ever go to war with a near-peer adversary, I would like to think every member of the military is able to forward deploy. I don't think that's an unreasonable standard, even if that's not the typical conditions they face.

ETA: reading through your link, this officer expressed the exact sort of progressive DEI ideology that got the military into a major recruiting shortfall that the experts claimed could not be fixed any time soon. Now that these maxims have been jettisoned, recruiting goals are actually being met. It turns out that no, contrary to Fram's claim, we don't need to actively recruit transgender service members.
 
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Rolfe said:
More on trans-identifying men in the US military.
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Oh look, another Reduxx tweety. This one only 2 1/2 years old, from the previous administration.

Being Reduxx, the story is sourced by an anonymous, invisible informant, I suppose (*checks story* yup). But they link to a conservative tabloid, that cites South Dakota Senator Mike Sounds, who says he heard about the anonymous invisible complaintant from the attorney general of the South Dakota National Guard. *pauses*

"Hey Alexa, does the National Guard in South Dakota have an attorney general?"
"No."

Maybe Sounds was confused, and meant SD attorney general at the time Marty Jackley? Jackley never spoke about this issue. While on the topic of the conspiracy of silence, the Pentagon, Army, DoD etc also haven't heard anything about this.

Also, the adult recruit (who the Post repeatedly calls a 'girl') says she had to sleep and shower with these trans recruits. Was it just the three of them in this company for some reason? Wouldn't all the other recruits have been subject to this? In any event, it seems like the recruit would be easily identified- I mean, how many 18 yr old 'girls' would be sleeping between two trans recruits in the SD NG?

Funny we never heard another word about this, or that the only person who claimed it is a Biden hater, complaining about 'woke' Biden policies hurting the military.
 
Ziggurat said:
It turns out that no, contrary to Fram's claim, we don't need to actively recruit transgender service members.
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There is plenty of policy space between "actively recruit transgender service members" and "discharge all currently serving transgender service members" regardless of service history and current role.
Ziggurat said:
I would like to think every member of the military is able to forward deploy.
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Space Force members don't generally go to space; Pentagon staff rarely deploy anywhere.
 
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Thermal said:
Funny we never heard another word about this, or that the only person who claimed it is a Biden hater, complaining about 'woke' Biden policies hurting the military.
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I find it funny that you seem unwilling to squarely address the core policy question here, diverting instead to pointless questions such as whether the complainant was sleeping "between" trans women recruits.

Do you think female recruits should have to share showers and bunk areas with male recruits during basic training?

ETA: Adjutant General, not Attorney General. [source]
 
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d4m10n said:
I find it funny that you seem unwilling to squarely address the core policy question here, diverting instead to pointless questions such as whether the complainant was sleeping "between" trans women recruits.

Do you think female recruits should have to share showers and bunk areas with male recruits during basic training?
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As I've said several times, no, I don't think they should. I also don't know that it has come up without the DIs taking mitigating steps to alleviate the problem before it occurs.

My issue is not, as you so strangely assert, the proximity of beds. My issue is, as always, with those who have contempt for the truth. The ideas can be discussed on their merits without inventing heart tugging bull ◊◊◊◊ stories. You object?

d4m10n said:
ETA: Adjutant General, not Attorney General. [source]
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Tell the NY Post. Their reporting, as usual, was half made up with little regard for the truth. They did call the adult recruit a 'girl', as Sen Sounds did, to again infantilize a grown woman.
 
Thermal said:
As I've said several times, no, I don't think they should. I also don't know that it has come up without the DIs taking mitigating steps to alleviate the problem before it occurs.

My issue is not, as you so strangely assert, the proximity of beds. My issue is, as always, with those who have contempt for the truth. The ideas can be discussed on their merits without inventing heart tugging bull ◊◊◊◊ stories. You object?


Tell the NY Post. Their reporting, as usual, was half made up with little regard for the truth. They did call the adult recruit a 'girl', as Sen Sounds did, to again infantilize a grown woman.
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When I was in the military, the women I worked with, from ages 18 to 50+ were referred to as "the girls" (and yes, men were "the boys").

d4m10n said:
That's all well and good, but you seem to be nitpicking about bits of reporting which are ancillary to the substantive issue here.
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Its part of the technique... you find a single word in a claim, or a couple of words - to take issue with, and then you awfulize them and blow their significance up out of all proportion, so that you can bury the uncomfortable parts of the claim that you know you have no answer for.
 
smartcooky said:
When I was in the military, the women I worked with, from ages 18 to 50+ were referred to as "the girls" (and yes, men were "the boys").
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Um...yeah. An informal term of endearment among peers is um... pretty normal. Are you somehow under the impression that journalists and Senator reporting on a heart tugging story of fear and humiliation are using jocular terms of familiarity with people they haven't even met and don't know who they are? You aren't really this dense, right?
smartcooky said:
Its part of the technique... you find a single word in a claim, or a couple of words - to take issue with, and then you awfulize them and blow their significance up out of all proportion, so that you can bury the uncomfortable parts of the claim that you know you have no answer for.
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Yeah, that's what you literally just did above.
 
d4m10n said:
That's all well and good, but you seem to be nitpicking about bits of reporting which are ancillary to the substantive issue here.
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Nitpicking? The entire story is fictitious. Rolfe and smartcooky can't figure it out, but you can.

The time to process a gender transition in the military is longer than basic training itself. There was no possible way these two imaginary untransitioned/partially transitioned transgender recruits would have been in basic under their new gender. The time for transitioning and the military evaluation of stability in the new gender takes months, before the DEERS marker is changed. Since starting with Selective Service registration, a registrant has to enlist according to their birth sex regardless of legal gender recognition, a recruit in basic training could not be in the situation described by Sounds. It didn't happen, and couldn't happen.

Eta: in case the acoustics are still bad in here, the issue of what should happen with transgender recruits has been long resolved within the military. The company commander has always had full leash to have trans recruits shower etc separately in order to maintain internal discipline and unit readiness. As I said already, they have long figured this ◊◊◊◊ out. And that's the 'substantive issue', Jack. There is no issue, save in the imagination of Senator Sounds and the handful of half wits that believed this.
 
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Thermal said:
As I've said several times, no, I don't think they should. I also don't know that it has come up without the DIs taking mitigating steps to alleviate the problem before it occurs.

My issue is not, as you so strangely assert, the proximity of beds. My issue is, as always, with those who have contempt for the truth. The ideas can be discussed on their merits without inventing heart tugging bull ◊◊◊◊ stories. You object?
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I want to be clear about how you're coming across here.

"No, I don't think female recruits should be forced to shower or bunk with male recruits... but I refuse to believe any claim that this has ever happened, and instead I've decided that anyone providing supporting evidence of such ever having happened is just a liar and a bigot and they hate trans people."
 
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