Split Thread Pronouns and expectations

[Gulliver Foyle]

I don't want to give Musk any real credit. Nor do I want to be insensitive to the real issues that trans people face daily. But a lot of people, maybe even a sizeable majority of people resent being asked what their pronouns are. I'm of the opinion that the more this is forced on the majority, the more the trans community will suffer. It guarantees a backlash. I'm the biggest believer in live and let live. As long as you don't harm me and mine, why the ◊◊◊◊ should I care about your gender identity? If I identify you wrongly, correct me and I'll try and respect you as a person and refer to you as you want me to.

But the need to proactively asking every new person you encounter about their preferred pronoun comes off as unnecessarily absurd. We take our cues from appearances. When someone looks at me and asks me my pronouns, I can't help but think, "are you stupid?" It comes off as a needless redundancy. And more importantly, many people resent the hell out of it.

From my perspective, this only gives straight, average people a reason to hate this group of people they don't understand.

Being angry at what is a matter of common decency isn't really something to be excused. And I reckon the vast majority of people wouldn't even notice the matter, much less be bothered by it, only for a bunch of very loud, very right wing and very well funded transphobic activists and astroturf groups (who have heavily embedded themselves in the much wider far right homophobic movement)

 

[acbytesla]

Being angry at what is a matter of common decency isn't really something to be excused. And I reckon the vast majority of people wouldn't even notice the matter, much less be bothered by it, only for a bunch of very loud, very right wing and very well funded transphobic activists and astroturf groups (who have heavily embedded themselves in the much wider far right homophobic movement)

I don't disagree with you. But they don't see it that way. They see it as political correctness gone amok. They see a small minority of people forcing them to accommodate what this tiny minority wants.

 

[bruto]

I don't disagree with you. But they don't see it that way. They see it as political correctness gone amok. They see a small minority of people forcing them to accommodate what this tiny minority wants.

Which is a bit ironic coming from people who don't seem bothered by large sectors of the population being harassed, detained and occasionally falsely imprisoned for not carrying their papers everywhere they go.

 

[acbytesla]

Which is a bit ironic coming from people who don't seem bothered by large sectors of the population being harassed, detained and occasionally falsely imprisoned for not carrying their papers everywhere they go.

Because it's not them. People are blind to others. Empathy is hard to come by in this world. And Trump gave them permission to embrace their own dark side. I'm a student of history. Human beings massacre other human beings for far less. The entire Middle and Dark Ages in Europe was a non-stop history of Christians slaughtering other Christians for being the wrong kind of Christian.

Middle America is barely getting use to homosexuals being one of them. Now you want to force them to accept people they see as much less normal?

There is a vein of xenophobia running through almost everyone. I wish it wasn't true. Trans people light up that xenophobia. It turns their world upside-down. Trans doesn't make sense to them. It's strange, even bizarre to them . I can't help thinking it's weird too. And I have friends that are trans. But I also live in redneck heaven in rural part of Washington State. I think it's pushing too hard too quickly.

 

[Aridas]

Being angry at what is a matter of common decency isn't really something to be excused. And I reckon the vast majority of people wouldn't even notice the matter, much less be bothered by it, only for a bunch of very loud, very right wing and very well funded transphobic activists and astroturf groups (who have heavily embedded themselves in the much wider far right homophobic movement)

As an addendum to this - if the right-wing weren't leaning into bigotry so heavily and clearly, there's a good chance that stuff like the pronouns thing would have continued to be a minor footnote instead of catching on in the first place, before getting to the part where the right-wing latched onto it as some great evil and made everyone that they could hear about it repeatedly.

I don't disagree with you. But they don't see it that way. They see it as political correctness gone amok. They see a small minority of people forcing them to accommodate what this tiny minority wants.

Sure, that's a narrative that is pushed. Personally, I find that narrative to normally be little more than an excuse and a proxy for deeper issues that are actively amplified by the right wing, rather than having any real merit in and of itself, though.

 

[dirtywick]

yeah they’re like what’s up with this political correctness thing? like, you should be allowed to be a little racist and nobody gets mad at you. if you are it’s because of my political opinions and not what i said or did. black people do commit more crimes. it’s the woke mind virus and tds. i’m a reasonable centrist, the left is completely insane you ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ libtard. and what about that whole holocaust thing? did we even land on the moon from this flat earth? and do vaccines even work?

yeah, you’ll appease them lol

 

[acbytesla]

Sure, that's a narrative that is pushed. Personally, I find that narrative to normally be little more than an excuse and a proxy for deeper issues that are actively amplified by the right wing, rather than having any real merit in and of itself, though.

It DEFINITELY is an excuse. No question about it.

I'm on that minority's side for the most part. I want them to be free to live their lives as they see fit. It's not really my business how anyone chooses to live. As long as it doesn't hurt me. The pronoun stuff is minor. It's the other stuff is what I think is important. Things like gender affirming care. And Republicans are trying hard to tear it all down. Caring about the pronouns is like caring about the peas instead of the steak.

 

[acbytesla]

Definitely went off track there.

I've always been practical when it comes to political stances. Compromise when it's necessary. A half a loaf is better than starving. I'm more concerned today with over the top cruelty than waging a battle over minor issues.

 

[novaphile]

Being angry at what is a matter of common decency isn't really something to be excused. And I reckon the vast majority of people wouldn't even notice the matter, much less be bothered by it, only for a bunch of very loud, very right wing and very well funded transphobic activists and astroturf groups (who have heavily embedded themselves in the much wider far right homophobic movement)

I see your flag is upside-down, are you in distress?

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

I don't disagree with you. But they don't see it that way. They see it as political correctness gone amok. They see a small minority of people forcing them to accommodate what this tiny minority wants.

◊◊◊◊ them, they're hate filled sacks of ◊◊◊◊.

We cannot afford to be forever placating the worst in society, despite it being political orthodoxy these days, that road leads to the nazis.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

Because it's not them. People are blind to others. Empathy is hard to come by in this world. And Trump gave them permission to embrace their own dark side. I'm a student of history. Human beings massacre other human beings for far less. The entire Middle and Dark Ages in Europe was a non-stop history of Christians slaughtering other Christians for being the wrong kind of Christian.

Middle America is barely getting use to homosexuals being one of them. Now you want to force them to accept people they see as much less normal?
There is a vein of xenophobia running through almost everyone. I wish it wasn't true. Trans people light up that xenophobia. It turns their world upside-down. Trans doesn't make sense to them. It's strange, even bizarre to them . I can't help thinking it's weird too. And I have friends that are trans. But I also live in redneck heaven in rural part of Washington State. I think it's pushing too hard too quickly.

Do not placate them for being evil, blacklist them, punish them, make their lives sheer misery until they learn how to act at the bare minimum level expected of human beings.

If they cannot accept others for being harmlessly different, we should not allow them to be destructively hateful.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

I see your flag is upside-down, are you in distress?

Ain't my flag.

PS take a closer look at the "stars"

 

[Aridas]

Do not placate them for being evil, blacklist them, punish them, make their lives sheer misery until they learn how to act at the bare minimum level expected of human beings.

If they cannot accept others for being harmlessly different, we should not allow them to be destructively hateful.

Personally, I think that if your goal is to make things better, simple escalation and "bullying to stop bullying" is of limited value. Both the carrot and the stick combined make for a far more effective strategy than just the stick alone.

 

[acbytesla]

Do not placate them for being evil, blacklist them, punish them, make their lives sheer misery until they learn how to act at the bare minimum level expected of human beings.

If they cannot accept others for being harmlessly different, we should not allow them to be destructively hateful.

I'm afraid you don't get it. This isn't about placating anyone. It's about survival and strategic warfare. Not taking your enemy on where he is strongest. But where he is weakest. America's island hopping strategy during the War of the Pacific comes to mind. Don't fight him on his chosen battlefield.

The pronoun stuff you see as nothing is forcing people to confront their prejudices head on when they're not prepared to do it.

 

[8enotto]

Not just prejudices, reality itself. Some don't live in fantasy.

 

[acbytesla]

Not just prejudices, reality itself. Some don't live in fantasy.

Thanks for the contribution. But I'm a bit confused about the point you're trying to make.

 

[8enotto]

If you identify as a furry attack helicopter it doesn't mean that's what others see.

Others do not share your fantasy about that. They are only required to be polite to your face.
Reality is they see a person living in delusion.

 

[acbytesla]

If you identify as a furry attack helicopter it doesn't mean that's what others see.

Others do not share your fantasy about that. They are only required to be polite to your face.

They're not required even to do that.

Reality is they see a person living in delusion.

That is what they think they see. But sexuality is far more complex than what one's genitalia is.

I don't get homosexuality either. It makes no sense to me. But I can't deny that some people, even a lot of people are not attracted to the opposite sex. But are attracted to the same sex. Who are we to tell them their lifestyle is unacceptable? IMV, the same goes for gender identity.

It's their life. Let them live it. We shouldn't make their life, or anyone's life harder, just because we don't understand them or their choices.

 

[novaphile]

Ain't my flag.

PS take a closer look at the "stars"

Ugh.

Nasty.

 

[junkshop]

There is no need to be a ◊◊◊◊. Indeed, being a ◊◊◊◊ (or a dick, or a wanker, or an arsehole - feel free to pick your preferred epithet) is far more effort than not doing that.

How much skin are you required to remove from your precious nose to not be a ◊◊◊◊◊◊ person? How much is too much?