The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VII

[Axxman300]

How is the issue of the EPIRB's failing to initiate - whether automatic or manual - a trivial one when we have a 1,500 capacity passenger ship which DID have EPIRB's fitted and also certified as having being inspected and tested, as per protocol.

Has nothing to do with the bow visor getting knocked off. Just one in a long list of factors contributing to the disaster's outcome. But of all your phantom issues, the EPIRBs are non-factor.

Of course, it has to be 'switched on' or activated to be able to test it (!) and this testing the signal works should not be done any longer than a few seconds because OF COURSE a signal would then be accidentally trigger with COSPAS-SARSAT.

Cool. Please walk us through the activation of this model EPIRB, and then give us the step-by-step procedure for testing. Be specific.

In addition, the Swedish government confirmed it had been using that ferry - twice during the same month at least - for transport of smuggled ex-Soviet military gear.

Specifically what kind of Russian hardware was smuggled? And what hardware was on the Estonia that night?

A witness testified that the Tallinn port was sealed off when he arrived so that a late truck could be loaded.

And this witness, do they have a name? Why did only one person make this claim? A port is a busy place with many people working, others boarding ships, others loading and unloading cargo. A shut down would have been noticed by at least 100 people, so where are those reports? Why only one "witness"?

Another witness - quite independently - testified she watched over the railing as a truck was loaded, causing departure to be delayed by fifteen minutes.

Again, just one witness?

Think about it, the events leading up to the disaster are important factors in investigating the disaster.

Some are, some are not. The important events are the half-assed inspections, not upgrading the EPIRBs because the company was cheap, and of course certifying the Estonia for open-ocean transit even though she was never designed for that kind of sailing. Yet you ignore these issues for phantom explosives and Dick Cheney.

Saying that the failure in bridge communications and for surrounding vessels, the failure of the buoys and the other events as testified by survivors are irrelevant is just not reasonable.

But the bridge DID communicate, and did the responding vessels. The buoys didn't fail, they just were not manually activated. And you cherry-pick the survivor's testimonies to suit your twisted lies.

I can see no conspiracy theory in any of these issues that need to be addressed, and it is a thread because it is a current affairs news event.

No conspiracy theorist ever thinks they are a conspiracy theorist.

 

[Mojo]

I can see no conspiracy theory in any of these issues ...

I don't suppose that fish notice water much either.

 

[junkshop]

As a Finnish speaker, I understood

viritys​

is an electrical term, which relates to a current. Please do a search as this has been discussed before.

viritys​

1. tuning (adjustment, calibration, etc.)
2. arming (making ready for use)
3. (mathematics) spanning
4. (informal) makeshift solution, MacGyvering

Source: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/viritys

[highlighting mine]

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Let's hear it for the buoy, ahhhhh let's give the buoy a haa-aa-aa-aa-aaaand"

(NB Does not work with US pronunciation of "buoy" )

I listen to a lot of audio books and it's the one American pronounciation that really rubs me up the wrong way. I can't remember what it was but there was one book that seemed to use the word 'buoy' far more than any book that isn't about sailing had any right to and I'm sure I developed a nervous twitch by the end.

 

[Myriad]

You actually cannot remember what your memory is like.

I experience this truth constantly in my domestic life.

For instance: I'd advise a certain individual here to get tested, but it's quite possible that person has already been tested and doesn't remember the testing or the results.

The advice from any trustworthy source for interacting with people with memory conditions starts with "don't argue." Given the current setting and topic there's going to be arguing anyhow, but to no effect except to limit the reach of misinformation.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Some are, some are not. The important events are the half-assed inspections, not upgrading the EPIRBs because the company was cheap, and of course certifying the Estonia for open-ocean transit even though she was never designed for that kind of sailing. Yet you ignore these issues for phantom explosives and Dick Cheney.
.

Estonia was operating in limited certification for coastal passage

 

[Jack by the hedge]

As a Finnish speaker, I understood

viritys​

is an electrical term, which relates to a current. Please do a search as this has been discussed before.

That wasn't the question. You obviously didn't do the translation yourself because it's not phrased as a native English speaker would write it.

 

[JesseCuster]

I confirm if I cite Helsingin Sanomat then it came from Helsingin Sanomat.

Well, you also said that if you say you got an image from Aberdeen Uni., then that's where it came from.

Except you got the version you used from Anders Bjorkman's website, and he got the original image from the University of Edinburgh.

Your confirmation of where you got something from is less than worthless.

And when you do bother to actually cite a source, or quote from a source, it regularly does not say what you're claiming it says. For example you cited the JAIC report, section 3.3.2 as your source for your claim that the Atlantic lock was only added to make people feel safer, yet I can't find anything in that section that says anything like that. It gives a description of the bottom lock (aka the Atlantic lock) and includes a diagram of the lock, but doesn't say anything about it only being added to the bow visor to make people feel safer. edit: Section 3.3.2 of the JAIC report actually specifically says that the Atlantic lock was "introduced to enable similar ferries to cross open oceans".

Can you quote the text that says the Atlantic lock was only added to make people feel safer? Or explain why you gave this section as your source for the claim if it doesn't actually say that?

 

[wollery]

Well, you also said that if you say you got an image from Aberdeen Uni., then that's where it came from.

Except you got the version you used from Anders Bjorkman's website, and he got the original image from the University of Edinburgh.

Your confirmation of where you got something from is less than worthless.

And when you do bother to actually cite a source, or quote from a source, it regularly does not say what you're claiming it says. For example you cited the JAIC report, section 3.3.2 as your source for your claim that the Atlantic lock was only added to make people feel safer, yet I can't find anything in that section that says anything like that. It gives a description of the bottom lock (aka the Atlantic lock) and includes a diagram of the lock, but doesn't say anything about it only being added to the bow visor to make people feel safer. edit: Section 3.3.2 of the JAIC report actually specifically says that the Atlantic lock was "introduced to enable similar ferries to cross open oceans".

Can you quote the text that says the Atlantic lock was only added to make people feel safer? Or explain why you gave this section as your source for the claim if it doesn't actually say that?

Correction; Vixen said she got the image from the University of Edinburgh, it turned out to originate with Strathclyde university.

 

[Dabop]

Correction; Vixen said she got the image from the University of Edinburgh, it turned out to originate with Strathclyde university.

Well they both got an 'E' and a 'H' in them, and both Universities- so they are the same then aren't they lol

 

[JesseCuster]

Correction; Vixen said she got the image from the University of Edinburgh, it turned out to originate with Strathclyde university.

My bad, I made a mistake. I should have checked, instead of relying on my faulty memory.

 

[Steve]

My bad, I made a mistake. I should have checked, instead of relying on my faulty memory.

You could have just used Vixen's memory. It works perfectly, we are told.

 

[jimbob]

Please try to behave

It is tedious for the moderation team when contentious threads are put onto moderated status, so I'm not yet doing so.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jimbob

 

[Reformed Offlian]

Well, you also said that if you say you got an image from Aberdeen Uni., then that's where it came from.

Except you got the version you used from Anders Bjorkman's website, and he got the original image from the University of Edinburgh.

When she claimed to be citing Aftonbladet, it turned out that she got that from Bjorkman, as well.

 

[JayUtah]

When she claimed to be citing Aftonbladet, it turned out that she got that from Bjorkman, as well.

I have a bookshelf of about 700 science and engineering books. Vixen seems to have a bookshelf full of conspiracy books.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

I have a bookshelf of about 700 science and engineering books. Vixen seems to have a bookshelf full of conspiracy books.

To be fair, based on this thread, it's a bookshelf full of conspiracy book.

 

[Vixen]

viritys​

1. tuning (adjustment, calibration, etc.)
2. arming (making ready for use)
3. (mathematics) spanning
4. (informal) makeshift solution, MacGyvering

Source: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/viritys

[highlighting mine]

The word is derived from the verb 'to flow', virta. As with English it can refer to water, as in rivers, or electricity as in current. In electrical terms, virta means 'power', so the closest meaning would be 'powered' or 'tuned' as in 'pitched'. 'Switched on' has a completely different phrase.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

The word is derived from the verb 'to flow', virta. As with English it can refer to water, as in rivers, or electricity as in current. In electrical terms, virta means 'power', so the closest meaning would be 'powered' or 'tuned' as in 'pitched'. 'Switched on' has a completely different phrase.

Once again avoiding the question of where you got that odd translation from.

And we have had some of the nuance of the word explained previously by native speakers of Finnish, so you're really not adding any value by telling us what you reckon it means.

 

[Vixen]

I experience this truth constantly in my domestic life.

For instance: I'd advise a certain individual here to get tested, but it's quite possible that person has already been tested and doesn't remember the testing or the results.

The advice from any trustworthy source for interacting with people with memory conditions starts with "don't argue." Given the current setting and topic there's going to be arguing anyhow, but to no effect except to limit the reach of misinformation.

I assume this is addressed to me. As I said I am in perfectly good health. This is factual. This is as medically, objectively and scientifically verified and certified by Terveystalo and as approved by Traficom, driving licence people. If it is not addressed to me, can I say I am not comfortable with the idea of disability being used in this context. People with Alzheimer's, memory issues, comprehension or reading difficulties or mental or affective illnesses are just as much entitled to be treated with respect and dignity as anybody else. Please let's not use disability as a tool for 'friendly advice' no matter how well-meaning, or even worse, as jibe fodder.

 

[Vixen]

Once again avoiding the question of where you got that odd translation from.

And we have had some of the nuance of the word explained previously by native speakers of Finnish, so you're really not adding any value by telling us what you reckon it means.

Almost certainly Google translate but if the translation came out as 'armed' then it is common sense to apply a more apt meaning.