• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VII

Vixen said:
Exactly. Now you are getting it. The MHz radio communications were blocked for the duration and the EPIRB's deactivated. It is as simple as that.
Click to expand...
Bull ◊◊◊◊. The EPIRBs were not 'deactivated' automatic ones because they have no switch to do that and they were in perfect working order, not damaged. Their transmissions were not blocked; they were found with fully charged batteries, not flat ones.

Your logic fails again.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
.It doesn't matter, as you said, how illogical we think it was that the owners did not simply pay for new EPIRBs. They just didn't, presumably because they weren't yet forced to.
Click to expand...
There was an exemption for existing buoys.
They could be continued in use until it was time to replace them at the end of their lifespan.

If you had recent new units they could have several years of time left after the reg change
 
Last edited:
LondonJohn said:
Oh dear, no.

The way it was supposed to work was not that. What was supposed to happen was that once a mayday situation had been reached, a member of the crew was supposed to go and switch on both EPIRBs. There was no need for the crew member to actually release the EPIRBs into the water (though that would have been the case in the days before hydrostatic release cages). The EPIRBs would begin signalling while they were still secured to the ship in their cages, then once the ship began sinking or listing sufficiently to submerge one or both of the EPIRBs, the hydrostatic release mechanisms would then automatically release them into the water.
Click to expand...
Best practice is to throw the buoys clear of the ship.
If they are left in their holders they can snag on the ships structure or the mechanism can fail to release.
 
LondonJohn said:
🎶 Let's hear it for the buoy, ahhhhh let's give the buoy a haa-aa-aa-aa-aaaand"

(NB Does not work with US pronunciation of "buoy" :p)
Click to expand...

Time for a bit of Bouyancy Beyonce.

If I were a buoy
I would turn off on my own
Tell everyone I'm broken
They wouldn't think I was beepin', alone
I'd shush myself first
And make fools of the crew
'Cause I'd know they'd be faithful
Waitin' for me to float home (to float home)
 
Last edited:
Andy_Ross said:
What difference would the EPIRBs have made if they were triggered?
Click to expand...
Rescue helicoptors did not arrive until an hour after the last MAYDAY at 01:31 (end time). It is quite likely a MAYDAY was attempted before Tammes finally got through. The JAIC puts the time of the major irrecoverable heel at circa 01:15, which is the start of its timeline as being when the bow visor fell off. But survivors relate feeling bangs, shudders and violent jolts at least fifteen minutes before that. When the vessel heeled and the lights were extinguished, the emergency generator came on and mostly stayed on until the vessel sunk completely (according to people on life rafts who lived to tell the tale). Yet Tammes and Ainsalu reported in the MAYDAY's there was a 'blackout' They must surely have been talking about a blackout on the bridge because otherwise the MAYDAY would have been sent from the proper official radio equipment on the bridge, not a hand held walkie talkie. Unlike the emergency generator with a limited life span, the bridge had a full UPS back up battery system, apx 240v. So, had the EPIRB's been activated, the COSPAS-SARSAT satellites would have had the distress signals closer to - at its earliest - circa 01:15, when the starboard side was partly already submerged. So yes, there would have been a difference of up to one hour in terms of earlier rescue of the >300 people who managed to scramble onto the by now horizontal port side. So, we have the issues of (1) the bridge unable to communicate, (2) the EPIRB's not activated and in (3) the nearby vessels, obliged by law to go to the rescue of other ships nearby in distress, unable themselves to communicate except with great difficulty to the coastguard MRCC. So, if one treats the whole thing as an innocent case of force majeure then of course nobody is going to investigate the deliberate attack angle but of course, it must have done and indeed is likely classified.
 
LondonJohn said:
Oh dear, no.

The way it was supposed to work was not that. What was supposed to happen was that once a mayday situation had been reached, a member of the crew was supposed to go and switch on both EPIRBs. There was no need for the crew member to actually release the EPIRBs into the water (though that would have been the case in the days before hydrostatic release cages). The EPIRBs would begin signalling while they were still secured to the ship in their cages, then once the ship began sinking or listing sufficiently to submerge one or both of the EPIRBs, the hydrostatic release mechanisms would then automatically release them into the water.

It's also worth noting that the EPIRBs and the hydrostatic release structures were entirely separate entities. And while the hydrostatic release mechanism was entirely located within the cage structure (and not the EPIRBs themselves), any automatic activation mechanisms had, by definition and design, to be an integral part of the EPIRBs themselves. EPIRBs are expensive kit, which is precisely why SOLAS gave operators more time to upgrade them to auto-activation models.
Click to expand...
The MV Estonia had fully compliant hydrostatic-release free float buoys. Please read the following carefully and stop with the persistent denial of established facts.

Estonian emergency buoys were a forgotten tuning The two emergency buoys of the car ferry Estonia did not send a signal to the rescuers because they had not been tuned on board. Emergency buoys burst to the surface properly as the ship sank. Turma's International Commission of Inquiry has investigated the activities of the emergency buoys that drifted off the Estonian coast. The buoys' batteries were fully charged, but they could not send anything untuned, says Commissioner Kari Lehtola. The committee closed the two-day meeting on Friday in Helsinki. The so-called EPIRB emergency buoys had been recently serviced and had been placed in place in accordance with the rules. However, during the installation phase, the activation of the buoys was forgotten: the protective cover must be opened and turned on the coupling head. In Estonia, the activation of the emergency buoy was one of the tasks of the radio electricians, of which there were two on board.

The investigation is still ongoing, but the Commission has consulted the radio electrician on the matter, said Asser Koivisto, the Commission's expert. The purpose of the emergency buoy is to send the location of the sunken ship and to tell the searchers the name of the ship. According to Koivisto's assessment. Helsingin Sanomat

Given the two buoys were certified as having been inspected and tested as having a signal (this means activating it for a short period) just the week before, then either (a) the ship's electrician didn't do his job properly and they were never tuned, or (b) someone deactivated them and (c) this was either via incompetence or vandalism, or given all the other factors coinciding - mid-journey time-wise and distance-wise, having just reached international waters and the explosions/collision/shudders at Swedish midnight, together with the Captain being 'taken out', as it were, or (d) deliberately planned in advance, with the aim of the vessel disappearing underwater with no-one being any the wiser for some period of time.
 
Last edited:
Vixen said:
The MV Estonia had fully compliant hydrostatic-release free float buoys. Please read the following carefully and stop with the persistent denial of established facts.

Estonian emergency buoys were a forgotten tuning The two emergency buoys of the car ferry Estonia did not send a signal to the rescuers because they had not been tuned on board. Emergency buoys burst to the surface properly as the ship sank. Turma's International Commission of Inquiry has investigated the activities of the emergency buoys that drifted off the Estonian coast. The buoys' batteries were fully charged, but they could not send anything untuned, says Commissioner Kari Lehtola. The committee closed the two-day meeting on Friday in Helsinki. The so-called EPIRB emergency buoys had been recently serviced and had been placed in place in accordance with the rules. However, during the installation phase, the activation of the buoys was forgotten: the protective cover must be opened and turned on the coupling head. In Estonia, the activation of the emergency buoy was one of the tasks of the radio electricians, of which there were two on board.

The investigation is still ongoing, but the Commission has consulted the radio electrician on the matter, said Asser Koivisto, the Commission's expert. The purpose of the emergency buoy is to send the location of the sunken ship and to tell the searchers the name of the ship. According to Koivisto's assessment. Helsingin Sanomat

Given the two buoys were certified as having been inspected and tested as having a signal (this means activating it for a short period) just the week before, then either (a) the ship's electrician didn't do his job properly and they were never tuned, or (b) someone deactivated them and (c) this was either via incompetence or vandalism, or given all the other factors coinciding - mid-journey time wise and distance wise, having just reached international waters and the explosions/collision/shudders at Swedish midnight, together with the Captain being taken out, (d) deliberately planned in advance, with the aim of the vessel disappearing underwater with no-one being any the wiser for some period of time.
Click to expand...
...and now we get the 'tuning' again.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom