The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VII

[Mojo]

If you use the click-up arrows, you can go back to the letter reproduced from this laboratory referenced earlier this week.

If you mean the letter you posted in post 6210, I don't see any evidence of enthusiasm for a particular position there; it's a dispassionate report using the sort of language one would expect. What do you think they were initially enthusiastic about, and what makes you think they were enthusiastic about it? And why do you think this alleged "enthusiasm" and its loss are significant?

 

[catsmate]

I blame the Aquatic Reptilians.

 

[Vixen]

If the commanding officers had realized the severity of the situation early on, they might have taken action, including "calling for help".

And the "communications" wasn't down - the lone Finn manning Helsinki Radio was on the loo, or busy with something else. Therefore there was a delay before the mayday was acknowledged, and even then it didn't follow the protocol for emergency traffic. That also delayed calling for additional resources.

And how do we know that? Well, it's described in detail in the JAIC report, including all the different recording available of the radio traffic.

You know this. You should know this - it has been explained to you many times.

Based on what do you describe NMT phones as "inferior"? Have you used one?

Also, there is nothing strange in using the phone for communicating with MRCC. That is a regular occurrence today also, for example to keep the VHF emergency channels free for local coordination, and be able to have a longer discussion with the Rescue Coordination Center.

In the Estonia case, they needed to use the phone to wake up Helsinki Radio, but later in the recorded emergency traffic, Turku MRCC can be heard. Swedish MRCC or Stockholm Radio isn't heard, for the simple reason that VHF traffic cannot reach that distance.

Seriously...?

Second Officer: Captain, there's a ship forty kilometres away calling MAYDAY on Channel 16. He says the list is 40° and can they get help urgently.

Captain: Oooooooh. Better use your NMT handset as we don't want to clog up the airwaves with SOS signals.

Second Officer: Do you have the landline phone number handy...what is the nearest MMRC?

Captain: Lemme have a look, could be Turku...?

<fx spends several minutes rustling about looking for their landline number>

Second Officer: Guy must be in the loo as there is no answer. I'll try again in ten minutes.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Numbers are programmed.
Ships do not use domestic telephones.
Do a bit of research

 

[Here_to_learn]

Seriously...?

Second Officer: Captain, there's a ship forty kilometres away calling MAYDAY on Channel 16. He says the list is 40° and can they get help urgently.

Captain: Oooooooh. Better use your NMT handset as we don't want to clog up the airwaves with SOS signals.

Second Officer: Do you have the landline phone number handy...what is the nearest MMRC?

Captain: Lemme have a look, could be Turku...?

<fx spends several minutes rustling about looking for their landline number>

Second Officer: Guy must be in the loo as there is no answer. I'll try again in ten minutes.

Are you willfully ignorant, or do you just pretend to be it?

Jaic: chapter 7.2.2

Outside office hours an MRSC was manned by only one person. However, MRSC Turku, as a maritime traffic centre and rescue subcentre, was manned by two.

and in 7.4.1

Helsinki Radio transmitted at 0150 hrs a Pan-Pan (urgent message) of the accident instead of a Mayday Relay (distress message), which MRCC Turku had requested several times by telephone, VHF and via MRCC Helsinki.

Table 7.2 shows all the stations that received the mayday calls.

Since we can listen to the recorded VHF traffic, we know that there is ongoing communication between the ships in the vicinity. You do not stop that traffic and tell everybody to shut up while you try multiple times to reach the MRCC. Instead of you use all communication methods you have available to try to reach them. That is exactly what we can hear. Silja and Viking saying that the cannot reach MRCC, and switching to NMT to get to them.


Regarding using a phone. I have the Swedish JRCC (Joint RCC) on speed dial. I do SAR missions for the Swedish Sea Rescue Society, and it's not uncommon to use the phone for some communications, and VHF for others. If for some reason I wouldn't get a response over VHF I call in using a phone. There are many situations where VHF communications might be limited.

 

[Here_to_learn]

Also chapter 17.2

The Commission finds no other explanation of the fact that Helsinki Radio did not hear the distress traffic than that the distress frequencies were not kept watch continually. With only one officer on duty for many hours there must be, for natural reasons, periods when the watchkeeping will be interrupted. This was also noted and accepted in the agreement between the National Maritime Administration and Telecom Finland regarding the conduct of distress radio traffic.

It is the opinion of the Commission that the alarms during the initial phase of the accident were late. The prime reason for this is believed to be the manning of the MRCCs and the radio stations, with only one man on duty. It was also too much for one person at MRCC Turku to initiate the alarms required in a major accident and at the same time follow the situation and take part in the distress traffic.

Consequences of the reduced manning at the MRCCs and the coast radio stations had been discussed in the organisation, and fears that the cost savings had resulted in insufficient resources for handling major accidents had been brought to the bodies responsible prior to the ESTONIA accident.

 

[JesseCuster]

Oh and what are "accentuating arms"? Do you mean actuators? Or were there other arms - that we have not yet heard about - whose job was to accentuate (the positive)?

Accentuating arm is a British colloquialism for actuator.

 

[zooterkin]

Accentuating arm is a British colloquialism for actuator.

But only if you're born within the sound of Bow Bells.

 

[LondonJohn]

But only if you're born within the sound of Bow Bells.

Wait - there were bells on the bow as well?? Surely they'd have been audible as the bow was getting ripped away?

 

[zooterkin]

Wait - there were bells on the bow as well?? Surely they'd have been audible as the bow was getting ripped away?

It might account for the clanging sounds that were heard.

 

[LondonJohn]

Are you willfully ignorant, or do you just pretend to be it?

Jaic: chapter 7.2.2

and in 7.4.1


Table 7.2 shows all the stations that received the mayday calls.

Since we can listen to the recorded VHF traffic, we know that there is ongoing communication between the ships in the vicinity. You do not stop that traffic and tell everybody to shut up while you try multiple times to reach the MRCC. Instead of you use all communication methods you have available to try to reach them. That is exactly what we can hear. Silja and Viking saying that the cannot reach MRCC, and switching to NMT to get to them.


Regarding using a phone. I have the Swedish JRCC (Joint RCC) on speed dial. I do SAR missions for the Swedish Sea Rescue Society, and it's not uncommon to use the phone for some communications, and VHF for others. If for some reason I wouldn't get a response over VHF I call in using a phone. There are many situations where VHF communications might be limited.

Ah, but Vixen knows better than you. She has special skills and understanding which place her on a higher intellectual plane than the likes of you, and thus is she equipped to know the real truth of the matter. Get back in your box and let Vixen instruct us as to why she's right and we are wrong.

 

[JayUtah]

Accentuating arm is a British colloquialism for actuator.

I got your accentuating arms right here.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

But only if you're born within the sound of Bow Bells.

... or aboard the dredger Bowbelle.

(Does it have an alibi for the Estonia sinking?)

 

[LondonJohn]

... or aboard the dredger Bowbelle.

(Does it have an alibi for the Estonia sinking?)

First the Marchioness, then the Estonia? This thing is bigger than we could have imagined!

 

[P.J. Denyer]

It’s the Rasputin Approach, beloved of Russian hit squads.

They worked to a funky 70's disco bop?

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Laudee laudee laudee! What an...interesting post. So you're now committing yourself to the belief that the bow visor was blown off with carefully-placed explosive charges, eh?

Oh and what are "accentuating arms"? Do you mean actuators? Or were there other arms - that we have not yet heard about - whose job was to accentuate (the positive)?

"Accentuating Arms" is what we used to call what you less intelligent people call "Air Quotes", when I was growing up in Cockney Rhyming School in Middlesex in the 70s.

 

[Reformed Offlian]

Oh and what are "accentuating arms"? Do you mean actuators? Or were there other arms - that we have not yet heard about - whose job was to accentuate (the positive)?

I gave this comment a thumbs up, because the image of "accentuating arms" sticking out of the ship doing precisely that (to accentuate the positive) made me giggle.

 

[Reformed Offlian]

"Accentuating Arms" is what we used to call what you less intelligent people call "Air Quotes", when I was growing up in Cockney Rhyming School in Middlesex in the 70s.


View attachment 66761

Shouldn't that be 'Air Quotes'?

 

[P.J. Denyer]

No one, labs included, can rule out the Kraken!

Release The Kraken Files!

 

[JayUtah]

Shouldn't that be 'Air Quotes'?

Only when it's gale-force air.