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Does 'rape culture' accurately describe (many) societies?

acbytesla said:
Bull.

Bertin doesn't present evidence. She expresses her opinion.
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Anyone who is masturbating to what looks kiddy porn will try to manipulate the uncomfortable truth.

Posted previously from The Guardian (June 2025):
When the Conservative peer Gabby Bertin arrived for a meeting with the the science and technology secretary, Peter Kyle, earlier this year she startled him by laying out an array of pornographic images across his desk. “They were screengrabs showing little girls, their hair in bunches, and massive, grown men grabbing little girls’ throats,” she says. She had selected images which appeared to depict child abuse, and yet were easily and legally available on a popular website.

Now let's see what industry insiders say about this type of content - here's porn producer Will Ryder talking about barely legal (CONTENT WARNING: This series features content that viewers may find disturbing, including images and themes of simulated s*xual abuse, inc*st, and s*xual assault. N*dity has been blurred. Viewer discretion is strongly advised):
Beyond Fantasy: Barely Legal

Ryder: "Somehow along the way....it got to a point where people wanted to see barely legal style girls. Hustler is one of the biggest series in history - barely legal - and these girls are all 18 - they are all 18 - but they look younger...pigtails, sometimes lollipops...they are cute, they are beautiful...

Same place - porn actress Tracey Sweet:
Beyond Fantasy: Barely Legal

Sweet:
"The young girl fantasy is one that's played out a lot, there is a huge market for it. And we're going to do what the market wants."
Nolan: "Be honest, how young are you made to look?"
Sweet: "As young as possible...as young as I can possibly look...and I can look pretty freaking young".

Same place - Donny - former porn producer:
Beyond Fantasy: Barely Legal

Donny: "I had one that came in and she probably looked 14. So I knew - we were going to be able to make a lot of money from this girl."
 
arthwollipot said:
Anyone who has had children knows that they don't look like children.

They are dressed like children. But it is in the nature of porn that the costume inevitably comes off, and you can see the fully adult body underneath.

They don't look like children.
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They look like children #4,381.

Anyone masturbating to what looks like kiddy porn will tend to manipulate the uncomfortable truth.
 
Poem said:
Anyone who is masturbating to what looks kiddy porn will try to manipulate the uncomfortable truth.

Posted previously from The Guardian (June 2025):
When the Conservative peer Gabby Bertin arrived for a meeting with the the science and technology secretary, Peter Kyle, earlier this year she startled him by laying out an array of pornographic images across his desk. “They were screengrabs showing little girls, their hair in bunches, and massive, grown men grabbing little girls’ throats,” she says. She had selected images which appeared to depict child abuse, and yet were easily and legally available on a popular website.

Now let's see what industry insiders say about this type of content - here's porn producer Will Ryder talking about barely legal (CONTENT WARNING: This series features content that viewers may find disturbing, including images and themes of simulated s*xual abuse, inc*st, and s*xual assault. N*dity has been blurred. Viewer discretion is strongly advised):
Beyond Fantasy: Barely Legal

Ryder: "Somehow along the way....it got to a point where people wanted to see barely legal style girls. Hustler is one of the biggest series in history - barely legal - and these girls are all 18 - they are all 18 - but they look younger...pigtails, sometimes lollipops...they are cute, they are beautiful...

Same place - porn actress Tracey Sweet:
Beyond Fantasy: Barely Legal

Sweet:
"The young girl fantasy is one that's played out a lot, there is a huge market for it. And we're going to do what the market wants."
Nolan: "Be honest, how young are you made to look?"
Sweet: "As young as possible...as young as I can possibly look...and I can look pretty freaking young".

Same place - Donny - former porn producer:
Beyond Fantasy: Barely Legal

Donny: "I had one that came in and she probably looked 14. So I knew - we were going to be able to make a lot of money from this girl."
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These are descriptions made by crusaders attempting to abolish porn. If you believe their little movie they call a documentary you will believe anything. This is pure propaganda.
 
acbytesla said:
These are descriptions made by crusaders attempting to abolish porn. If you believe their little movie they call a documentary you will believe anything. This is pure propaganda.
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Is Bill Ryder a porn producer? Is he filmed speaking the words I cited? Tracey Sweet and 'Donny' too?

You haven't watched the clips have you? Why don't you come back when you actually have some evidence that barely legal actors don't look under 18.

I have also before posted Sound Investigations undercover work and their video on Dillon Rice. Your evidence amounts to nothing.
 
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Poem said:
Is Bill Ryder a porn producer? Is he filmed speaking the words I cited? Tracey Sweet and 'Donny' too?

You haven't watched the clips have you? Why don't you come back when you actually have some evidence that barely legal actors don't look under 18.
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Yeah, but I have watched a lot of porn and have for 50 years. What you and this movie is saying is patently false. Barely legal is exactly that. Adults performing in sexually explicit videos. That they can take a single frame out of context demonstrates their dishonesty.1 frame of video is typically between 1/30th or 1/24th of a second. I can make anyone look horrible if I can select one frame of video.
 
acbytesla said:
Yeah, but I have watched a lot of porn and have for 50 years. What you and this movie is saying is patently false. Barely legal is exactly that. Adults performing in sexually explicit videos. That they can take a single frame out of context demonstrates their dishonesty.1 frame of video is typically between 1/30th or 1/24th of a second. I can make anyone look horrible if I can select one frame of video.
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Again, Bill Ryder is not biased. He speaks freely: they are all 18 - but they look younger...pigtails, sometimes lollipops...they are cute, they are beautiful...
That is indistinct from the other sources I have quoted that one might suspect are guilty of bias.
Same candour with Tracey Sweet and Donny. Shall we look at Max Hardcore as well?

Hardly anyone who is watching this type of content is going to own up to watching virtual kiddy porn.
End of conversation.
 
arthwollipot said:
Anyone who has had children knows that they don't look like children.

They are dressed like children. But it is in the nature of porn that the costume inevitably comes off, and you can see the fully adult body underneath.

They don't look like children.
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I'd argue they're not even dressed like children, for the simple reason that if they were, it would be illegal. They're dressed like students. Obviously there's a bit of "polite fiction" going on with that. But Poem is disingenuously trying to conflate the appearance of prepubescent children with the appearance of postpubescent young adults.

Age of consent in the UK is 16. That's a young adult. It's legal in the UK to act in porn at age 18. That's a young adult. Put a healthy 19 year-old in a school uniform, say it's a college school uniform if pressed, and you're in legal territory. As long as you don't imply or outright say the character portrayed is supposed to be a young adult under the age of 18.

Yes, it's a bit cynical. And yes, there's more than a little gamesmanship involved. But no, they're not dressed like children. They're dressed like young adult students. Poem's still doing the thing where they pretend postpubescent young adults are prepubescent children, to manufacture outrage and moral high ground where none exists nor should exist.
 
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theprestige said:
I'd argue they're not even dressed like children, for the simple reason that if they were, it would be illegal. They're dressed like students. Obviously there's a bit of "polite fiction" going on with that. But Poem is disingenuously trying to conflate the appearance of prepubescent children with the appearance of postpubescent young adults.

Age of consent in the UK is 16. That's a young adult. It's legal in the UK to act in porn at age 18. That's a young adult. Put a healthy 19 year-old in a school uniform, say it's a college school uniform if pressed, and you're in legal territory. As long as you don't imply or outright say the character portrayed is supposed to be a young adult under the age of 18.

Yes, it's a bit cynical. And yes, there's more than a little gamesmanship involved. But no, they're not dressed like children. They're dressed like young adult students. Poem's still doing the thing where they pretend postpubescent young adults are prepubescent children, to manufacture outrage and moral high ground where none exists nor should exist.
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Where did I mention prepubescent / postpubescent? You are way off. For someone who thinks that porn is harmful but isn't able to say exactly why, then this should have been a cue.

What is clear, is that legalising porn came with extreme consequences...and watching it tends to desensitise and addle the brain.
 
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dirtywick said:
i like how darat has now become one of poems quotes of an authority on the topic
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From the beginning of this thread, Poem has tried to get people to argue with each other, instead of addressing the arguments directed to him. I've lost track of the number of times he's replied to an argument I've directed to him, by telling me some other member disagrees with me. I've lost track of the number of times he's responded to an argument from another member, by telling them they're contradicting something I've said.

Trying to get him to actually argue his own position, in his own words, end to end - premises, evidence, reasoning, conclusion - is a fool's errand.
 
Poem said:
Where did I mention prepubescent / postpubescent?
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You didn't. That's the point. You're conflating the two under the heading "children", even though a postpubescent 18 year-old is legally, sexually and morally distinct from a prepubescent 8 year-old.

Poem said:
You are way off.
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I think I'm spot on. At the very least, I'm consistent with observable evidence.

Poem said:
For someone who thinks that porn is harmful but isn't able to say exactly why, then this should have been a cue.
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Unlike you, I'm not trying to make an argument based on feels I can't support.

Poem said:
What is clear, is that legalising porn came with extreme consequences...and watching it tends to desensitise and addle the brain.
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And here is where you're supposed to support these claims with evidence.
 
theprestige said:
I'm not defending anything. I'm dissenting from your begged question, that this porn is or should be illegal under UK law.
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What you are doing is remaining steadfastly on that fence. Porn that features what looks like 14/15 year olds should be a no-brainer, but I think you got lost in your nihilism. You have to respect the perverse don't you?
 
Counsel would like to remind the court that when discovery searched 'barely legal' on pornhub the first couple pages of results included a couple of 'vague attempt to look salaciously young' videos (one with giant plush animals in the background) and the rest featured normal youthful young women of the age you should definitely card before canoodling with. And a couple of very short 25 year olds.
 
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Poem said:
(...) I think you got lost in your nihilism. You have to respect the perverse don't you?
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You seem determined to ignore the difference between thoughtful philosophical nihilism and 15 year old edgelord nihilism.
 
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