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Wow, UK has lost freedom of speech

In the US, the right to protest is specifically the right to protest the government.

I don't think it's acceptable to protest an individual - it makes them a target, and is essentially bullying. As far as entities go, it's just shorthand for companies, charities, sports organizations, etc - any group of people who aren't governmental. I'm sure you can find some exceptions that I'd agree with, but in general I don't think non-governments should be the targets of protests. Boycotts sure - everyone is allowed to withhold their support for an organization. Employee strikes, sure - they're withholding their labor from their employer.

Protests, by their nature, are an attempt to force the target of the protest to do what you want them to do. They are ultimately coercive.
I think we will have to agree to disagree; I definitely think that entities, to use your shorthand, are legitimate targets for protests. And I also think that some individuals who have freely chosen positions of great power can be legitimate targets as well - an obvious example would be the tech broligarchs, for instance, but the same principle is applicable to others with far less influence over our lives as well (it could be the owner/head of a company that contaminates the environment/common resources of a community).
 
I think we will have to agree to disagree; I definitely think that entities, to use your shorthand, are legitimate targets for protests. And I also think that some individuals who have freely chosen positions of great power can be legitimate targets as well - an obvious example would be the tech broligarchs, for instance, but the same principle is applicable to others with far less influence over our lives as well (it could be the owner/head of a company that contaminates the environment/common resources of a community).
Can we talk about this some? Because I think I kind of get where you're coming from, but I can't make it actually make sense.

Let's start with protesting an individual. Elon Musk seems pretty polarizing, so let's talk about them. I'm curious what you think a protest against Elon Musk would look like, and what would be the point. I assume you wouldn't be protesting the fact that Musk exists, because that would be both pointless and tasteless in my view - protesting a person's existence as an individual is pretty cut-throat. So I would have to assume that you're protesting something Musk has done... Some action they've taken. And again, I have to ask what the objective is for such a protest. Would the protest be intended to stop Musk personally from doing that same thing in the future? Trying the get them to undo whatever it is that they've done? Neither of those seems reasonable to me, as protesting to deprive a person of their right to do something legal seems extraordinarily authoritarian. At the end of the day, I have a hard time seeing any protest against an individual person as anything other than an attempt to bully someone to do what you want them to do.

The same thing applies to private entities - if what they've done is legal, then a protest against the organization as a whole seems like authoritarian bullying. If you're angry at Tesla existing, then don't buy a Tesla. If you're so angry that you think other people shouldn't buy a Tesla, then by all means try to organize a boycott of Tesla products. Nobody is forcing you to give Musk your money, and you're certainly free to try to convince other people to not give Musk money too.

On the other hand, it could be that you object to the legality of a thing - as you mention, maybe they're contaminating the environment. In that case, you are protesting the contamination, and perhaps you're protesting the authorities not stepping in when they're supposed to. You are protesting the government itself. Or perhaps you're trying to gain momentum to make the action illegal. All of that seems legitimate to me.
 
Can we talk about this some? Because I think I kind of get where you're coming from, but I can't make it actually make sense.

Let's start with protesting an individual. Elon Musk seems pretty polarizing, so let's talk about them. I'm curious what you think a protest against Elon Musk would look like, and what would be the point. I assume you wouldn't be protesting the fact that Musk exists, because that would be both pointless and tasteless in my view - protesting a person's existence as an individual is pretty cut-throat. So I would have to assume that you're protesting something Musk has done... Some action they've taken. And again, I have to ask what the objective is for such a protest. Would the protest be intended to stop Musk personally from doing that same thing in the future? Trying the get them to undo whatever it is that they've done? Neither of those seems reasonable to me, as protesting to deprive a person of their right to do something legal seems extraordinarily authoritarian. At the end of the day, I have a hard time seeing any protest against an individual person as anything other than an attempt to bully someone to do what you want them to do.

The same thing applies to private entities - if what they've done is legal, then a protest against the organization as a whole seems like authoritarian bullying. If you're angry at Tesla existing, then don't buy a Tesla. If you're so angry that you think other people shouldn't buy a Tesla, then by all means try to organize a boycott of Tesla products. Nobody is forcing you to give Musk your money, and you're certainly free to try to convince other people to not give Musk money too.

On the other hand, it could be that you object to the legality of a thing - as you mention, maybe they're contaminating the environment. In that case, you are protesting the contamination, and perhaps you're protesting the authorities not stepping in when they're supposed to. You are protesting the government itself. Or perhaps you're trying to gain momentum to make the action illegal. All of that seems legitimate to me.

Legal seems a very low bar to me. I expect organisations/companies to act ethically. They rely on the communty in which they exist, they rely on tax payers and consumers, they do not exist, nor thrive, in a vacuum. They owe us all to act with that in mind. In a free society it has to be possible to protest, if they exploit their power/position.

Changing laws is very slow work, and so it should be, of course, to ensure the lawfulness of the process. If an entity poses a threat to the environment, or to individuals, or to important common values, that slow process can be fatal. Protesting can be much faster; most organisations/companies care about public opinion. And even if it's not about very important issues, perhaps it's just about something like uglifying a building, for instance - what then? Of course protesting such things is legitimate, and often even desirable.
 
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Well I'm here to tell you the sources DO NOT MATTER when the actual victims of this free-speech suppression and police harrassment are being interviewed and telling the audience what happened to them IN THEIR OWN WORDS!!
Without wishing to speak to the specific cases you mentioned, as a general point, sources do matter because alleged victims of alleged police harassment often have strong motives to lie about their experiences or at least put a positive spin on them.
 
Without wishing to speak to the specific cases you mentioned
... in other words, dodging addressing the cases in point you snipped from the post you are replying to...

as a general point, sources do matter because alleged victims of alleged police harassment often have strong motives to lie
And when they are recorded on video, and go though the courts as these example have? I guess the courts are right-biased unreliable sources too... amirite?

about their experiences or at least put a positive spin on them.
Positive spin, negative spin, right spin, left spin or no spin. They still happened - that is undeniable. In the case of Graham Linehan, multiple sources across the full extent of the political spectrum reported it... they all put their own spin in the facts... but the facts remained.
 
Legal seems a very low bar to me. I expect organisations/companies to act ethically. They rely on the communty in which they exist, they rely on tax payers and consumers, they do not exist, nor thrive, in a vacuum. They owe us all to act with that in mind. In a free society it has to be possible to protest, if they exploit their power/position.

Changing laws is very slow work, and so it should be, of course, to ensure the lawfulness of the process. If an entity poses a threat to the environment, or to individuals, or to important common values, that slow process can be fatal. Protesting can be much faster; most organisations/companies care about public opinion. And even if it's not about very important issues, perhaps it's just about something like uglifying a building, for instance - what then? Of course protesting such things is legitimate, and often even desirable.
It can only be effective if
1) it's actually true and can be verified as such, in which case it should be dealt with legally even if you also want to raise awareness of it in the interim
2) enough other people share the same sentiment
3) the company in question cares about whatever is being protested about in the first place

Often, none of those are true.

Consider the whole "Occupy Wall Street" thing from 2011. Hypothetically it was supposed to be a mass statement about wealth inequality and the role of money in politics, etc. Which are fine things to raise awareness of, and to campaign the government for redress thereof. In reality, however, this group of people accomplished nothing at all other than to make themselves a nuisance and inconvenience everyone around them. They didn't effect any change at all. Not a single company changed their business model as a result.

Boycotts, on the other hand, have sometimes been successful. You know why? Because they're not protesting a company, they're appealing to consumers to withhold their money from the company in question - consumers who have been convinced that the company's behavior is bad enough that they shouldn't give them their cash.

Worker strikes are more similar to boycotts than to protests, although they can backfire spectacularly. If the public largely agrees with the workers, strikes can be effective. Sometimes strikes accomplish what the workers want not because the public agrees with their complaint, but because the workers hold the public hostage. Teacher strikes, for example, sometimes end up resulting in better concessions for teachers... but they also tend to piss off parents who are suddenly left without the ability to work because their kids can't go to school.

At the end of the day, companies only care about public opinion if that opinion hurts their bottom line. Protests generally don't cause financial pressure.
 
I strongly disagree - yes, boycotts work, but they do not occur spontaneously; they are, as far as I can tell, always the results of demonstrations/protests of some kind.

And of course there are companies/organisations that will listen to public opinions. Some even care about the community in which they exist.
I begin to suspect that you have a different definition of "protest" than I do.
 
I strongly disagree - yes, boycotts work, but they do not occur spontaneously; they are, as far as I can tell, always the results of demonstrations/protests of some kind.

And of course there are companies/organisations that will listen to public opinions. Some even care about the community in which they exist.
Is it the marching in the streets, the vandalizing of the commons, that inspires a successful boycott? Or is it having a coherent message that resonates with consumers and corporations?
 
I begin to suspect that you have a different definition of "protest" than I do.
And me.

For mine, protests and demonstrations consist of people taking to the streets, with placards and chants. In my 70 years on the planet, I have yet to see a product boycott launched in this way. Prior to social media, product or service boycotts were a result of news articles on radio, TV or in the newspapers. With social media, they are started with campaigns going viral and getting widespread coverage.
 
Cargo cult activitism rears its ugly head again. Somebody somewhere is vandalizing the commons in a childish fit of pique; surely real, positive changes won't be far behind!
 
From the sublime to the ridiculous. This would be hilarious if it wasn't for the fact it was just another example of the insane world we live in these days
 
From the sublime to the ridiculous. This would be hilarious if it wasn't for the fact it was just another example of the insane world we live in these days
Did you actually read the article? Or is this merely a knee-jerk reaction to the headline?
 
Classic misinformation. Chronologically he was arrested after he posted that picture, so the headline is "true."
However, it deliberately implies to readers that he was arrested for posting it.
 
Did you actually read the article? Or is this merely a knee-jerk reaction to the headline?

Of course I did.
Unlike the far-lefties on this forum, who mock and dismiss anything they that will not fit neatly into their indoctrinated world view, before they actually bother to read it, I actually read entire articles, and watch/listen to whole videos... BEFORE I post them.

He was arrested for an outstanding warrant for stalking and harassment.
A half truth... yes, that was another allegation, but it is NOT what he was arrested for...

He also faced another allegation of stalking related to a photograph of a house that appeared on his social media.

It was nothing to do with the photograph
Wrong!
Then Jon said he offered to prove that the pictures had been taken in the US, where owning or shooting guns are legal. However, officers told him it was not necessary.
A week later on August 23, the officers returned and arrested him on suspicion of possessing a firearm with intent to cause fear of violence.

He does not actually have any firearms. If he did, the Police would not have dropped the charges.

Jon was held overnight in a cell before being interviewed and was then released on bail until October.
He claims police visited his home three more times before the charges against him were dropped.

So the arrest could only have been a result of the photos... therefore the arrest WAS DIRECTLY RELATED TO THE PHOTOS

You have been lied to by right wing grifters.
You have been lied to by left wing morons
 
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And now confirmed, the reason for the arrest WAS the photos


West Yorkshire Police told Metro: "Police received a complaint of stalking involving serious alarm or distress, relating partly to social media posts, several of which included pictures of a male posing with a variety of firearms which the complainant took to be a threat.

I don't give a flying ◊◊◊◊ what any lefties think of the source... that is a direct quote from West Yorkshire Police. There is no debate about this.

"Police investigated and charged a man with a public order offence but the case was then discontinued by the CPS (Crown Prosecution Service)."

Oh, but of course it was. As anyone who isn't a complete moron knows full well... the process IS the punishment!
 

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