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The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VII

OK here's the Southwest Texas summary:



Source: Sven Anér, ESTONIA sprängdest! ("ESTONIA was blown up!") - ed. - Disclaimer for academic discussion only - no copyright infringement intended
Interesting. It appears Jay made a typo in the name of the book, which you've blindly copied rather than referring to the source.

It's "sprängdes", with no 't' at the end. https://books.google.com/books/about/Estonia_sprängdes.html?id=hDpMNQAACAAJ
 
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I know it was something you read. I know that you said you'd provide a citation. I know you never did provide a citation.

I've no idea why it's called an Atlantic lock, and it's irrelevant. I'll ask you why it's called an Atlantic lock, but I've no doubt that whatever answer you provide will not be accompanied with an actual valid citation, and may not actually be an answer to the question at all.

So tell us Vixen, with an actual valid citation (remember that you explicitly said that all your posts that are not qualified with "IMV" has are factual, are properly sourced and properly referenced), why is it called the Atlantic lock?

And while you're at it. why is the reason for the name "Atlantic lock" relevant to whatever argument you think you're making.

Please answer the question, with a valid citation that shows where you learned the origin/meaning of the name "Atlantic lock".
OK. So I have now located the source. It is:

JAIC Chapter 3.3.2

Is there anything else I can help you with today?
 
OK. So I have now located the source. It is:

JAIC Chapter 3.3.2

Is there anything else I can help you with today?
Here's the claim you were supposed to be supporting:
Vixen, what is your evidence for the claim that the Atlantic lock was only added as an accessory to make people feel safer? An actual valid citation please.
Can you quote the passage from 3.3.2 that supports this, please?
 
I know it was something you read. I know that you said you'd provide a citation. I know you never did provide a citation.

I've no idea why it's called an Atlantic lock, and it's irrelevant. I'll ask you why it's called an Atlantic lock, but I've no doubt that whatever answer you provide will not be accompanied with an actual valid citation, and may not actually be an answer to the question at all.

So tell us Vixen, with an actual valid citation (remember that you explicitly said that all your posts that are not qualified with "IMV" has are factual, are properly sourced and properly referenced), why is it called the Atlantic lock?

And while you're at it. why is the reason for the name "Atlantic lock" relevant to whatever argument you think you're making.

Please answer the question, with a valid citation that shows where you learned the origin/meaning of the name "Atlantic lock".
Because it was clearly the wrong lock. If they'd used a Baltic lock, it would have never failed.
 
I meant to address this earlier.

Hull has a bottom? And what good would a hole in Hull do, if you're at sea? Which I suspect i am now.
Big ships have many holes in the hull. The valve that lets water in or out of those openings is a seacock. You let water in for example to cool machinery, provide for saltwater wash downs, and take on ballast. You let water out when it is gray water from culinary or sanitary systems, or ordinary runoff. And the cooling water and ballast has to go back out again when its job is done. If you combine several of these uses together in one integrated unit with a single intake or outlet, it is a seachest. You hear of ships being scuttled by opening the seacocks, and that's true. But that's a choice. Normally the inside part of the seacock is connected to other plumbing that will make use of the opening. Removing that plumbing and letting water spill into the lower spaces uncontrolled will sink the ship.

But I'm sure all boats have a hole in the hull to let the water out, if you are right, I know my dinghies did.
Small sailboats have drain cocks, generally on the lowest or after part of the cockpit floor. Ostensibly this is to drain water from the boat after it has been lifted out of the water. But many sailboats have underway drain cocks. These drain water from the cockpit when the boat is underway. The passing water generates suction that draws water out through the cock—no pump necessary.
 
along
leads me to believe that the full facts are definitely 'classified' and probably will be for another 39 years (i.e., the usual 70-year period for classified information).
Are you threatening us with 39 more years of this ◊◊◊◊? =]
I find it weird that some people actually seem to come from a culture where 'avoiding admitting mistakes' is even a thing.
Seriously, your inability to admit mistakes is probably 40-50% of the reason you get abuse* on your threads, <sfx/kemosabe">

*I think you get an inordinate amount of personaly abuse on here sometimes, but seriously.
 
I meant to address this earlier.


Big ships have many holes in the hull. The valve that lets water in or out of those openings is a seacock. You let water in for example to cool machinery, provide for saltwater wash downs, and take on ballast. You let water out when it is gray water from culinary or sanitary systems, or ordinary runoff. And the cooling water and ballast has to go back out again when its job is done. If you combine several of these uses together in one integrated unit with a single intake or outlet, it is a seachest. You hear of ships being scuttled by opening the seacocks, and that's true. But that's a choice. Normally the inside part of the seacock is connected to other plumbing that will make use of the opening. Removing that plumbing and letting water spill into the lower spaces uncontrolled will sink the ship.


Small sailboats have drain cocks, generally on the lowest or after part of the cockpit floor. Ostensibly this is to drain water from the boat after it has been lifted out of the water. But many sailboats have underway drain cocks. These drain water from the cockpit when the boat is underway. The passing water generates suction that draws water out through the cock—no pump necessary.
I have said before, I would sink a ship by smashing or disconnecting the cooling water outflow, that way a huge volume of water is being actively pumped in to the ship.
 
I have said before, I would sink a ship by smashing or disconnecting the cooling water outflow, that way a huge volume of water is being actively pumped in to the ship.
Depends how you want it to sink. IIRC when they turned the USS Oriskany into an artificial reef, they used carefully calculated explosive charges along its bottom so it would sink flat and in the place they wanted it to rest. I suspect (IANAME*) your method would sink it bow or stern first and it would end up a ship's length or more away.


* I am not a marine engineer. ;)
 
Depends how you want it to sink. IIRC when they turned the USS Oriskany into an artificial reef, they used carefully calculated explosive charges along its bottom so it would sink flat and in the place they wanted it to rest. I suspect (IANAME*) your method would sink it bow or stern first and it would end up a ship's length or more away.


* I am not a marine engineer. ;)
If I was sabotaging a ship, why would I care?
It would be moving anyway so it would sink in a different place to where the pipe was smashed.
 
OK. So I have now located the source. It is:

JAIC Chapter 3.3.2

Is there anything else I can help you with today?
Okay, you post a link to a chapter that details how there were issues between the designers and subcontractors who built the visor, and how stress maximus were mostly assumed, not tested. This also mentions the lack of follow through on upgrades to the bottom lock.

Seems to me the shipping company had no idea the visor wouldn't hold up in rough seas because there were too many cooks in the mix. Nobody could give specific numbers about the amount of stress the visor could take, and because the ship was not designed for open-ocean transit no one thought it would matter.

And the diagram of the Atlantic lock doesn't look like something someone can just pick up, and toss into the water on a whim.
 

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