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Buildings collapse into their own footprint

Haha, believe me, I have. And I have the steel splinters to prove it. There is a standing contest in one of our machine shops for who can get the longest curlicue out of a particular NC turning center.
One of the true psychos I used to train with, who fought on an amateur circuit, casually asked me to hang one of his small heavy bags in his backyard workout area. It couldn't have been two feet long, like a child's bag. I could barely lift the thing: he had filled it with a mix of debris including steel shavings. He had playfully hit me in sparring a few times and put the fear of God in me.
 
My understanding is that timber, while it burns and will eventually be destroyed by fire, will retain a sufficient percentage of design strength longer than a similarly strong steel element. That's because a) It burns mostly only on the outside, with a limited burn rate and b) conducts heat much slower than steel, so it stays cooler inside for longer (also, a wooden beam of same strengh is thicker.
Put conversely: The heat of fire is conducted to the core of a steel element pretty fast - and steel is thus susceptible to yielding within a short amount of time. My structural engineering friend has also explained to me that when a steel structure fails from fire, it is liable to do so with little to no warning, whereas wooden structures somehow broadcast coming failure a bit more ahead of time.

I like to show the effects of a fire in a workshop of a local cooky factury that burned several years ago at a time when they were producing a christmas variety of chocolate cake - photo is my own:

View attachment 63236

True, this a simple one-story workshop, the steel structure had only to hold up the roof, and obviously no fire proofing.
One could say that "chocolate cake fires melt steel!"
Point is: JayUtah had an anecdote about timbers holding up such a roof even after a fire - steel does not.
Well sugar has vastly more energy than thermite, TNT, Semtex H et cetera.
 
Well sugar has vastly more energy than thermite, TNT, Semtex H et cetera.
Just as paraffin wax has more energy density than jet fuel. The rate of reaction obviously has something to do with it. But indeed, the precise combination of the combustible load is an important parameter in fire engineering. In fact, 9/11 greatly advanced that field. It was initially shown that the average office furniture combustible mass was not deemed enough to produce the temperature necessary to soften steel. It was only when the model was made to accurately reflect what were thought to be secondary factors that the model correctly matched observation. In a normal office fire model, the furniture is initially in its habitable configuration. The fire progresses slowly from its initiation point until all the fuel is involved. Instead, the Twin Tower scenario involved a mechanical impact that toppled furniture into a pile at the bottom of each floor. Then the entire fuel load was ignited at once, using jet fuel as the accelerant. This vastly altered the combustion physics and therefore the heating profile. This effect was not anticipated previously.
 
A new WTC-7 video just dropped:


It doesn't record the collapse, but you get a good look at where the fire was, and the volume of smoke indicates a serious blaze. The channel is "Between Two Towers" and is dedicated to finding unpublished 9-11 videos and photos. Worth a look.
 
Did I do my anniversary drop-in on the forum only to see free-fall and collapsed into its own footprint get resurrected again?

And did a truther just claim pancake failure when the whole issue was the failure of the structure in the fire zones leading to the outer columns failing in turn? And not floors pancaking onto each other?

Look, there was already nothing new in 2008, but it's 2025 for crying out loud! Can't conspiracy peddlers at least try to refine their talking points?
 
A new WTC-7 video just dropped:

...
An instructive scene is at 1:50 minutes: Camera shows much of North face of WTC7, down Greewich St.: Initially. it all appears dark and hazy; as the camera then zooms in one fllor (perhaps the 9th or11th) become more and more visible. Point here is that, due to lack of resolution and contrast, this digital video camera does NOT show the fire while zoomed out even though it's clearly there!
So we learn: If and when a "Truther" shows you a still or video of any building burning, but zoomed out, and you can't make out any fires, it doesn't mean there aren't any fires; it could be due to smoke reducing contrast so much that video cameras of the day would not be able to resolve them.

From 12:05 min on, there's a good close look at the sough face of the Verizon Building and the damage it received from getting hit by WTC1.
I find noteworthy that a large majority of the windows are intact - which limits the number and size/force of any "explosive charges" hypothetically detonated to make the North Tower collapse.
(A minute later, around 13:15, the camera pans over the side of the WFC building that faced the North Tower - a lot more windows broken there, but primarily in the lower half, which is consistent with the reach of debris, and less consistent with the work of hypothetical "explosives", which should be assumed to break windows at all levels.)
 
Did I do my anniversary drop-in on the forum only to see free-fall and collapsed into its own footprint get resurrected again?

And did a truther just claim pancake failure when the whole issue was the failure of the structure in the fire zones leading to the outer columns failing in turn? And not floors pancaking onto each other?

Look, there was already nothing new in 2008, but it's 2025 for crying out loud! Can't conspiracy peddlers at least try to refine their talking points?
No.
 
A new WTC-7 video just dropped:


It doesn't record the collapse, but you get a good look at where the fire was, and the volume of smoke indicates a serious blaze. The channel is "Between Two Towers" and is dedicated to finding unpublished 9-11 videos and photos. Worth a look.
I hadn't seen that one, but I have seen some stills taken perhaps 120 degrees clockwise of where tha video was and those still showed the gashes in the side of WTC7 that faced WT1 and fires on perhaps 3-5 floors with a lot of smoke poring out of the building.
 
Hot Damn ! another building collapses down into it's footprint in a pile of uniform chunks debris field.
Maybe an explosion - maybe not ?

Update: upon a closer inspection, It appears the collapse area is a vertical facade wall
rather than "a partial building collapse" as described in the news coverage.
 
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This news video reveals the "Building and vertical wall that collapsed were constructed to be essentially a separate
building that housed the building's central Heat/hot-water boiler and chimney.
 
A smoke stack is rarely categorized as a "building".
It did not collapse into that playground, it fell mostly downward, but bricks spilled 18.0° to form a heap, and the playground was also affected
A 9/11 connection is the interviewee in the first video: Dan Nigro, who became acting commanding chief officer on 9/11 with the death of chief Ganci. Nigro later became Fire Commissioner of NYC and is now retired.
 
Crazy to see the 'freefall' and 'collapsed into footprint' zingers still in use to make thoughtless arguments sound fancier and more complicated than they actually are. It's clear to see that over the last 15 years I've had an account here not a thing has changed with the Controlled Demolition takes.
 
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Crazy to see the 'freefall' and 'collapsed into footprint' zingers still in use to make thoughtless arguments sound fancier and more complicated than they actually are. It's clear to see that over the last 15 years I've had an account here not a thing has changed with the Controlled Demolition takes.
You couldn't tell me that I'm not drop dead gorgeous for the last 15 years either, no matter how much irrefurable evidence you present to the contrary.
 
A smoke stack is rarely categorized as a "building".
It did not collapse into that playground, it fell mostly downward, but bricks spilled 18.0° to form a heap, and the playground was also affected
A 9/11 connection is the interviewee in the first video: Dan Nigro, who became acting commanding chief officer on 9/11 with the death of chief Ganci. Nigro later became Fire Commissioner of NYC and is now retired.
A mix of Gish Gallop and spraying words everywhere.
 
Didn't think this was worthy of a new thread, but the recent fires disaster in Hong Kong has the remaining twoofers doing a dance because the buildings didn't collapse. They are of course ignoring the fact that those buildings are structurally concrete and not steel like the towers.
 
Things fall straight down. Have you heard of gravity?
Amazing how the towers fell "into their own footprint", but not a single Truther has ever disputed that the towers' collapse damaged WTC 7.

Also amazing how they're still using the same long-debunked material from when I last posted here in 2014.

Didn't think this was worthy of a new thread, but the recent fires disaster in Hong Kong has the remaining twoofers doing a dance because the buildings didn't collapse. They are of course ignoring the fact that those buildings are structurally concrete and not steel like the towers.
They were also not hit by planes.

Truthers jumping to wild conclusions? Naaah.

Also, it's hilarious that they're doing this after all their "first time in history = impossible" claims which would also apply to demolishing the WTC.
 
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Amazing how the towers fell "into their own footprint", but not a single Truther has ever disputed that the towers' collapse damaged WTC 7.

Also amazing how they're still using the same long-debunked material from when I last posted here in 2014.


They were also not hit by planes.

Truthers jumping to wild conclusions? Naaah.

Also, it's hilarious that they're doing this after all their "first time in history = impossible" claims which would also apply to demolishing the WTC.
My experience with low key truthers in real life is that they always come back to old previously debunked stuff. After a gish gallop of other easily debunked stuff they start back at the beginning forgetting that it was debunked and after they say, "still there are all these questions?"
 

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