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The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VII

Vixen said:
No, because two Estonian athletes claim to have clambered down the car ramp door, and as recreated by Strathclyde Uni in their graphic. (See those two figures on the hull?)
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Why is that evidence against the reason given in the JAIC report for the bow visor coming off, but not evidence against the bow door coming off as the result of demolition charges?
 
Jack by the hedge said:
Ah. I didn't think of that. If only the windows had broken earlier on, all the water might have poured out of them and the ship might never have sunk.
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So always break every window of every boat beforehand, is your recommendation? In case the bow visor comes off as Carl Bildt blows a hole in the side with semtex.
 
Helen said:
So always break every window of every boat beforehand, is your recommendation? In case the bow visor comes off as Carl Bildt blows a hole in the side with semtex.
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There's no point breaking the windows at the top because the water doesn't pool there, you need to drill holes at the bottom of the Hull to let it run out. That's just simple logic.
 
Hull has a bottom? And what good would a hole in Hull do, if you're at sea? Which I suspect i am now. But I'm sure all boats have a hole in the hull to let the water out, if you are right, I know my dinghies did. And they didn't have any windows at all, so that hole finally makes sense! Or not, since I want to stay true to the nature of this thread.
 
Helen said:
Hull has a bottom? And what good would a hole in Hull do, if you're at sea? Which I suspect i am now. But I'm sure all boats have a hole in the hull to let the water out, if you are right, I know my dinghies did. And they didn't have any windows at all, so that hole finally makes sense! Or not, since I want to stay true to the nature of this thread.
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Hull is the bottom, but at least the roads there are paved with Good intentions. Which may explain the potholes.
 
No matter what the accident or disaster is, you will always find some "expert" who disagrees with official findings. Sure, sometimes they might be right, but the other 90% of the time they're wrong. Right now on the fringes of social media TWA-800 is making a comeback in the CT world. For the past ten years there has been a fringe element claiming Titanic sailed with an ongoing fire in a coal bin, and that was the true cause of her sinking. Youtube hosts dozens of aviation experts ( or as I call them: Pilots who have a drinking problem) who make judgements on video footage, no matter how poor the images are, and then spout off about how the FAA and the NTSB are getting it wrong even though the wreckage is still smoldering. This has been the nature of the beast going all the way back to sitting around the fire in the cave.

There are a few, vocal, people just hard-wired to see a conspiracy in everything.

This is a game to CTists. They're smarter than you because they can see the hidden truths of the world, and if you have the nerve to debate them you're either a fool, or a shill for our overlords. Only their facts count. And they weight the game by asking question about peripheral aspects of the accident, and then claim coverup because those questions are unanswered in the various investigations. In this case the bow visor was knocked off in rough seas because the ship was sailing too fast, and the structure was never designed for open ocean transit in the first place. The JAIC never addressed the location of the captain, or the contents of the car deck because neither have anything to do with the sinking. This should be obvious. But the game is to cloud the field with ghost stories about spies, smugglers, intelligence agencies, and political intrigue.

I used to be a CTist, I used to play this game. And unlike some, I think I was good at it.

I could bury you in irrelevant facts and build bullet-proof strawmen. I did it because I believed what I was saying...until one day I didn't. The real world is impossible to get around. Fact, unlike CTs, don't change. Those who initiate CTs claim to have done research, and have insider knowledge, unnamed sources, and so on. We who buy into CT's just assume they have done honest work, and the fact is they almost never do. The CTist's job is to sew distrust of various institutions, and in some cases it has worked. The result is people only believe the other side of the argument because the officials are corrupt. Forget the fact that every ferry disaster started in the front office (a real conspiracy, just not the sexy kind).

Not every question needs or deserves an answer. Investigations cost money, good investigators are expensive. Chasing every claim down is unrealistic, and from the few accident reports I waded into it seems like most investigations are much more comprehensive than the CT world gives credit. For the most part the unanswered questions came for CTists in the first place.

Now as an ex-CTist I am comfortable with ambiguity because it doesn't change the root facts of the case.
 
Axxman300 said:
For the past ten years there has been a fringe element claiming Titanic sailed with an ongoing fire in a coal bin, and that was the true cause of her sinking.
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I thought that a coal bunker fire was now considered to be a fact. And that it might have even contributed to the Titanic trying to go across the Atlantic quickly.

But I really haven't been paying attention to that
 
jimbob said:
I thought that a coal bunker fire was now considered to be a fact. And that it might have even contributed to the Titanic trying to go across the Atlantic quickly.

But I really haven't been paying attention to that
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There was a fire in a bunker, but it was never out of control, and did not contribute to the ship sinking. It was one of the side questions the inquiries looked into back in 1912. If you want to know the whole story about the claim, and the facts you can check this out:

 
For the record, Mike Brady of Ocean Liner Designs also does a nice take down of the MS Estonia disaster, and ro-ro ferries in general in this episode starting at the 12:02 mark. The first part deals with the design flaws of the HMS Invincible for the hardcore maritime engineering disaster buffs.

 
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