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General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 4

There is no international law, only treaties and conventions -- which states can attach reservations to their ratification of (Poland over abortion) or withdraw from (Israel and the ICC) or never ratify (USA with the convention of the rights of the child)
 
And no, they will not be able to return to the homes in what is now Israel from which they or their ancestors fled or were expelled in 1948. Those homes will have long ago been replaced by modern Israel housing. They will have to be rehoused somewhere else in the Palestinian Territories. The loss of those homes was the price the Palestinian Arabs paid for their leaders' refusal to accept the 1947 Partition Plan, which would have created a Palestinian state. That is what happens when you refuse compromise and gamble on war, and then you lose the war.

Of course, western writers before WW1 called the area Palestine, a name dating from Roman times. They also wrote about Bithynia, Cappadocia and Cilicia. None of those names were used by the people who lived there in the 19th century, No-one who actually lived in Ottoman Syria before 1918 called themselves a Palestinian.
 
Planigale said:
There are a variety of mechanisms. Most cases go to a variety of international courts, e.g. ECHR if a state has been found to breach in that case international human rights law then they have to pat damages and correct the breach. If they fail to do so then a variety of sanctions may be exerted. Individuals may be brought before the ICC and may be tried and punished if found guilty. In some cases the enforcing authority is the security council (viz Korean war, gulf war).

As you seem keen to learn more about the subject I suggest you start here. Once you have read something about the topic you can come back and we can discuss further.

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Funny.

Neither of the bodies you have mentioned have powers of enforcement. One, of course, only covers Europe.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Israel wouldn't exist without International Laws.
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Untrue.

Israel was created due to the efforts of Jewry wordwide, starting in the late-19th century.
The modern Jewish State exists, not actually because of anything that International bodies did (first the League of Nations, and now, the UN).
The 1947 UN 181 Partition Plan was not an "International Law" at all. The UN General Assembly does not pass laws.
It provided suggestions and outlines for implementation of Resolutions, which are non-binding.

Israel, as a distinct Nation among the Nations, exists because Jews wanted it to exist.
If you take a look at the Israeli Declaration of Independence, what does it say?

"The Land of Israel was the birthplace of the Jewish people. Here their spiritual, religious and political identity was shaped...Pioneers, ma'pilim (immigrants coming to Eretz-Israel in defiance of restrictive legislation - ed.) and defenders, they made deserts bloom, revived the Hebrew language, built villages and towns, and created a thriving community controlling its own economy and culture, loving peace but knowing how to defend itself, bringing the blessings of progress to all the country's inhabitants, and aspiring towards independent nationhood."

+++++++++++++++++++

Maybe it's a good opportunity today for presenting a musical interlude:

www.israelnationalnews.com

Watch: Captivity survivor Agam Berger plays 'Hatikva' at Berlin Jewish festival

Agam Berger, who was held for 482 days in Gaza, plays “Hatikva” at a Jewish festival in Berlin. Her emotional performance follows earlier tributes at March of the Living in Poland.
www.israelnationalnews.com www.israelnationalnews.com
 
lionking said:
Funny.

Neither of the bodies you have mentioned have powers of enforcement. One, of course, only covers Europe.
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The security council does. The enforcement body for ECHR is the council of Europe. There are certainly persons in jail as a result of ICC trials.

just as sovereign citizens deny the validity of national law, you can deny the validity of international law. Being in a minority does not make you right.

Yes there are criminal staes just as there are criminal individuals, but failing to obey the law doesn't make it non existent.
 
A report from Physicians for Human Rights emphasises the abuse of palestinians in Israeli detention.
Over the past two years, up to August 2025, at least 94 Palestinians have died in Israeli detention facilities. Yet, the report stresses that this unprecedented figure likely represents only a portion of the full death toll. Given the Israeli military’s practice of enforced disappearances since October 2023, the actual number of deaths may be considerably higher. Moreover, since the report was completed, four more Palestinians have died in the past month alone, pushing the total close to triple digits – deaths caused by the systemic denial of medical care and the torture of Palestinians in Israeli custody.
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For comparison there were 30 deaths over the previous ten years.
At least 46 Palestinians died in Israel Prison Service (IPS) facilities, and 52 more died in military custody. Of the 94 deaths documented in the report, along with four additional cases recorded since its completion, 46 occurred under IPS custody, and another 52 Palestinians, all from the Gaza Strip, died while held by the military.... Initial post-mortem findings released by the families of the deceased, along with testimonies gathered by attorneys who visited the prisons and medical information obtained prior to some of the deaths, point to a systematic pattern of severe violence – including head trauma, internal hemorrhages, and broken ribs. Other cases expose grave medical neglect, including extreme malnutrition and the denial of life-saving care.... The report also outlines the various ways in which Israel has concealed these deaths and blocked efforts to carry out any meaningful investigation into their circumstances. As a result, no one implicated in these cases has been held accountable to date, reflecting an ongoing pattern of cover-ups, lack of oversight, and institutional rejection of responsibility.
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The highest number of deaths, 29, occurred at the Sde Teiman military prison in Southern Israel, near Gaza.

Five Israeli reservist soldiers have been charged with aggravated abuse and causing serious bodily harm, after a Palestinian prisoner was allegedly beaten and stabbed in the rectum with a sharp object at Sde Teiman in July 2024.

Footage emerged showing reserve soldiers taking a detainee aside and surrounding him with riot shields before he was allegedly attacked. The five reservists deny the charges and have not been named.

The alleged assault has divided the nation, with some right-wing politicians criticising a military police investigation and even some "right to rape" protests outside the jail.
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www.bbc.com

At least 94 Palestinians died in Israeli prisons in two years, human rights group says

A new report by Physicians for Human Rights Israel (PHRI) alleges "systematic killings and cover-ups".
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com
 
Laws that cannot be enforced are dead letters. Stop twisting yourself in knots to maintain your worldview as well as as the Palestinian fake narrative (e.g. "the 1967 borders" which were never 'borders') and acting as if whatever the UNGA passes is legally binding (it isn't, admittedly at Great Power insistence in 1945).
 
NatalieSalat said:
Laws that cannot be enforced are dead letters. Stop twisting yourself in knots to maintain your worldview as well as as the Palestinian fake narrative (e.g. "the 1967 borders" which were never 'borders') and acting as if whatever the UNGA passes is legally binding (it isn't, admittedly at Great Power insistence in 1945).
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I note a change in your argument, you now accept that international laws exist, but if they cannot be enforced then they may as well not exist.

You are correct UNGA resolutions are not international law, I have never argued they are. You are making a straw man argument.

The law is only not enforced until it is.
 
lionking said:
Which is my point as well
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Don't bother. Just like my parents' generation who didn't give a **** about the fate of the people of Vietnam once the DRV won or those who said 22 years ago that the only heroes are those who defeat the U.S. military, they only care that the West loses no matter the cost to the people they purport to care about.
 
From Donald Trump (at dinner for Saudi prince, remarking about Gaza):
"it (currently) looks a little bit messy…"
 
TRUMP: "Where are you from?"

REPORTER: "I'm from Palestine."

TRUMP: "Oh, we're making a lot of progress, huh? They like me. The Palestinians like me. The Palestinians are doing very well, actually. I think we're working very closely with a lot of people to make everybody happy, including Israel, the Palestinians, and everybody."

https://twitter.com/x/status/1990845883173294391
 
Israel is pursuing more targeted assasinations in Gaza.
Just reported: 2 high-ranking HAMAS commanders were eliminated in IAF strikes.
Drones and other overflights have been occurring at various places, with explosions being heard in several sectors.

HAMAS still holds the remains of 2 more Israeli Jews, and a foreign migrant worker.
Witkoff was about to hold a top-level meeting directly with HAMAS, and he then realized it was a terrible idea.
Providing more and more 'legitimacy' to HAMAS isn't the way to go forward. Wiping out these maniacs from the face of the earth seems to be a better idea.
www.ynetnews.com

Former IDF general says Gaza ceasefire is temporary, predicts return to combat

Israel Defense and Security Forum founder Brigadier General (Res.) Amir Avivi warns Hamas is rearming during lull; says internal security threats and rising global antisemitism pose major challenges
www.ynetnews.com www.ynetnews.com
 
Sez you.

IDF (and other Israeli Security Services) will make efforts to seek out and destroy enemies, regardless of their location.
In Lebanon.
In Europe.
In the USA & Canada.
In territories being occupied by Israel. (Gaza/Judea/Samaria/JordanValley/Syrian farside of Golan Heights)

HAMAS is being given 'air' and that is a mistake.
The airstrikes mentioned above were in RETALIATION for violation of "lull" protocols perpetrated by the Islamic Jihadists in Gaza as they opened fire at IDF positions.

And then there's the position of over 100 HAMAS cadres trapped in those Rafah tunnels, refusing to emerge under a white flag. They apparently prefer to die as martyrs. So be it, as that can be arranged.
 
I am gladly 'celebrating' the dismissal of these HAMAS members from our blue planet.
Israel appears to be the only State willing to actually deal with these scum using the language they understand.
If that makes Israel 'rogue' then it's a badge of honor, among the Nations who cower before the Jihadists.
www.jpost.com

Mossad unveils Hamas ops. across Europe | The Jerusalem Post

According to the Mossad, coordinated raids in Austria and Germany resulted in arrests and the seizure of weapons and explosives intended for use “on command.”
www.jpost.com www.jpost.com

As for "International Laws" -- take yer best shots in courts. Don't pin hopes.
(See: Vladimir Putin)
 
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