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General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 4

Interestingly a former teacher at UCL has been arrested for a physical attack. The university where he teaches has taken no action.

Pressure on the Hebrew University of Jerusalem is growing after one of its lecturers, criminologist Michael Wolfowicz, was arrested on suspicion of kidnapping and violently assaulting a Palestinian.... Wolfowicz, a senior lecturer at the faculty of law’s criminology institute, was arrested on Tuesday by the Department of Internal Police Investigations (DIPI), which handles all criminal offences committed by police officers....
The Palestinian students' letter demanded Wolfowicz's suspension until proven innocent, saying that “someone who assaults a person just for being Arab and Palestinian cannot teach students in general, let alone teach human rights courses to Arab students, especially while being accused of committing a terrorist act against his own people”.

“Only in Israeli society can you see an academic commit a terrorist act against a person simply because they are Arab and Palestinian, and the academic instutition where they teach remain silent,” they said.
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Of course when an Israeli lecturer is accused and arrested for a physical assault on a Palestinian, we hear no great outcry, nor does the Israel university condemn nor suspend* the lecturer.

www.haaretz.com

Hebrew University suspends faculty member suspected of attacking Palestinian

Border Police Volunteer and Criminology Lecturer Dr. Michael Wolfowicz Was Arrested Last Week Alongside Eight Others – Including a Police Officer and Four Soldiers – on Suspicion of Abducting and Violently Attacking a Palestinian
www.haaretz.com www.haaretz.com
www.middleeasteye.net

Pressure on Israel's Hebrew University after lecturer arrested for attack on Palestinian

Michael Wolfowicz is suspected of the kidnap and brutal beating of a Palestinian alongside Israeli police officers and soldiers
www.middleeasteye.net www.middleeasteye.net

ETA He was suspended after some delay.
 
Planigale said:
Interestingly a former teacher at UCL has been arrested for a physical attack. The university where he teaches has taken no action.


Of course when an Israeli lecturer is accused and arrested for a physical assault on a Palestinian, we hear no great outcry, nor does the Israel university condemn nor suspend* the lecturer.

www.haaretz.com

Hebrew University suspends faculty member suspected of attacking Palestinian

Border Police Volunteer and Criminology Lecturer Dr. Michael Wolfowicz Was Arrested Last Week Alongside Eight Others – Including a Police Officer and Four Soldiers – on Suspicion of Abducting and Violently Attacking a Palestinian
www.haaretz.com www.haaretz.com
www.middleeasteye.net

Pressure on Israel's Hebrew University after lecturer arrested for attack on Palestinian

Michael Wolfowicz is suspected of the kidnap and brutal beating of a Palestinian alongside Israeli police officers and soldiers
www.middleeasteye.net www.middleeasteye.net

ETA He was suspended after some delay.
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Given things like Munich, Klinghoffer, Dolphinarium... reap a whirlwind from what you sow.

And It would help a great deal if the Friends of Palestine stopped calling such actions "resistance".
 
NatalieSalat said:
There is no international law because there is no world government.
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It might be called international law, but countries (including Australia) ignore it when it is against national interest. Quoting “international law” is utterly pointless.
 
NatalieSalat said:
Given things like Munich, Klinghoffer, Dolphinarium... reap a whirlwind from what you sow.

And It would help a great deal if the Friends of Palestine stopped calling such actions "resistance".
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Are you prepared to condemn violence against Palestinians by Israeli civilians in Israel or the West Bank? I was clear that I disapproved even of a non-violent protest targeting an Israeli Professor merely because he had served in the IDF.

In any case we are supposed to discuss the facts not each other.

The most moral army?
Three Palestinian teenagers released in a recent prisoner exchange were abducted by Israeli soldiers while seeking aid and tortured in custody, a new report has revealed.... described how they were abducted by Israeli forces near aid distribution points and transferred to the notorious Sde Teiman detention camp in southern Israel.... They said they endured torture, beatings and starvation in Israeli custody. The trauma has left them unable to sleep, and they are plagued by night terrors and bed wetting.... 16-year-old Jabal recounted how a soldier was playing a game on his phone during the torture. When he lost the game, he would get up and beat him out of frustration.

“I remained in that room until the day's end, enduring numerous assaults, including having my head slammed against the wall, being kicked, and having my hair pulled.”

On another occasion, an Israeli prison officer showed Jabal a photo of his mother manipulated to look like she was lying alongside an Israeli soldier, falsely claiming that she and his sisters had been “raped and killed".

When he lashed out at the prison officer, Jabal was hung in cuffs a metre from the ground and repeatedly beaten.
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It should be remembered that Israel has ratified the UN convention on the rights the child. Even if the three child detainees were thought to be terrorists they should have been treated as children.

Even being a US citizen doesn't stop the IDF abusing children.
Mohammad Zaher Taysir Ibrahim, then 15 years old, was detained by Israeli forces from his family home in Al-Mazra'a ash-Sharqiyah, near Ramallah, around 3 a.m. on February 15, according to documentation collected by Defense for Children International - Palestine. During his arrest, Israeli forces bound his hands behind his back and blindfolded him, then transported him to Ofer military camp for interrogation. Israeli forces beat him with the butts of rifles during the transport..... “[My] section consists of 19 rooms, each equipped with four bunk beds,” Mohammad told DCIP. “In each room, eight children occupy the beds, while the remaining children sleep on mattresses on the floor. The mattresses, whether on the beds or on the floor, are extremely light and inadequate. Each prisoner receives two blankets, yet we still feel cold at night. There is no heating or cooling system in the rooms. The only items present are mattresses, blankets, and a single copy of the Quran in each room.”....
“The meals we receive are extremely insufficient,” he said. “For breakfast, we are served just three tiny pieces of bread along with a mere spoonful of labneh. At lunch, our portion is minimal, consisting of only half a small cup of undercooked, dry rice, a single sausage, and three small pieces of bread. Dinner is not provided, and we receive no fruit whatsoever. Occasionally, we might get a small cucumber and a tiny tomato with some meals, but this is not guaranteed. There are no desserts of any kind; we only receive a small spoonful of jam every two or three days. Sometimes, we are offered only light tea, which tastes more like hot water and is served without sugar.”

“In terms of hygiene and bathing, we are permitted to go outside to the yard once a day, around 9 a.m., for a duration of 40 minutes,” Mohammad told DCIP. “Prisoners from every three rooms are allowed to go out simultaneously. This time is meant for showering, but there are only six showers available, meaning not all prisoners can utilize this time for a shower. When we do shower, we have access to shampoo, but it lacks foam and fragrance. Each month, we shave our heads down to zero with a razor, but shaving our beards is prohibited.”
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NatalieSalat said:
There is no international law because there is no world government.
Click to expand...
lionking said:
It might be called international law, but countries (including Australia) ignore it when it is against national interest. Quoting “international law” is utterly pointless.
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The usual excuse of those who make a habit of breaching international law.
 
Violence by Jewish Israeli terrorists against the Palestinian civilian population of the West Bank is getting so wide spread that even the IDF can't turn a blind eye. The Israeli government and certainly some government ministers are complicit in supporting terrorist attacks.

IDF Reports Surge in West Bank Settler Attacks Against Palestinians, Says Police and Shin Bet Looking Away Amid Political Pressure​

Israeli security officials attribute the rise in Israeli settler attacks against Palestinians in the West Bank to the political backing settlers receive from government ministers, Knesset members and prominent religious leaders
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According to the Wafa news agency, settlers set fire to the entrance of the mosque and sprayed threatening graffiti on its outer walls. The arson comes a day after the IDF acknowledged a sharp rise in cases of Jewish terrorism in the West Bank, but said it stemmed from 'fringe' groups unrepresentative of the majority of settlers
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It is worth comparing this to the attack on a synagogue in Australia where the doors were set on fire, consider how the media reported that and the wide spread condemnation of anti-semitism, whilst a similar event by Israeli Jews is not equally condemned. The Jewish Israeli terrorists have even attacked IDF.
The round of recent denunciations was in reaction to a particularly brazen attack Tuesday that saw dozens of masked Israeli settlers set fire to vehicles and other property in the Palestinian villages of Beit Lid and Deir Sharaf.

The army said the settlers then fled to a nearby industrial zone and attacked soldiers responding to the violence, damaging a military vehicle. Four Israelis were arrested, three of whom have already been released, and four Palestinians were wounded, authorities said.
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Only once the IDF are attacked are the terrorists condemned by the Israeli President. Whilst Palestinians arrested for attacking the IDF would be detained without access to a lawyer and abused, tortured and starved, Israeli Jewish terrorists are released. This is what is meant by an apartheid government, one where your religion results in how you are treated by the authorities, access to different legal systems and different rights.

www.haaretz.com

IDF reports surge in West Bank settler attacks, says police and Shin Bet looking away

Israeli Security Officials Attribute the Rise in Israeli Settler Attacks Against Palestinians in the West Bank to the Political Backing Settlers Receive From Government Ministers, Knesset Members and Prominent Religious Leaders
www.haaretz.com www.haaretz.com
www.haaretz.com

Palestinian reports: Settlers torch, vandalize West Bank mosque

According to the Wafa News Agency, Settlers Set Fire to the Entrance of the Mosque and Sprayed Threatening Graffiti on Its Outer Walls. The Arson Comes a Day After the IDF Acknowledged a Sharp Rise in Cases of Jewish Terrorism in the West Bank, but Said It Stemmed From 'Fringe' Groups...
www.haaretz.com www.haaretz.com
www.haaretz.com

Settlers attack Palestinians plowing their land in the southern West Bank

The Attack Wounded One Palestinian in What Was One of the Latest Incidents in a Wave of Settler Violence. Residents Said the IDF Intervened Using Live Fire but Made No Arrests, After Which Settlers Then Threw Stones at Cars, Wounding a Woman and Blocking the Ambulance's Path
www.haaretz.com www.haaretz.com
 
NatalieSalat said:
There is no international law because there is no world government.
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So you claim that the actions of the Nazis against Jews weren't crimes because they were legal under German law and there is no such thing as international law? There are also people who claim there is no such think as national law. Merely because you believe it doesn't make it true. International laws exist because staes including Israel have agreed to abide by a set of laws, including international humanitarian law.
 
arthwollipot said:
The usual excuse of those who make a habit of breaching international law.
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Seriously? Where is the international police which enforces these laws? What happens if countries do not consent to these laws?

Come on, you know the answers to these questions. A bit of honesty helps.
 
lionking said:
Seriously? Where is the international police which enforces these laws? What happens if countries do not consent to these laws?
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In theory, the UN and the International Criminal Court is where international laws are enforced and prosecuted. They haven't been that great at their job, I'll grant you, but that doesn't mean that there's no such thing as international law, as @NatalieSalat claimed.

en.wikipedia.org

International law - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
lionking said:
Seriously? Where is the international police which enforces these laws? What happens if countries do not consent to these laws?

Come on, you know the answers to these questions. A bit of honesty helps.
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Exactly. Conventions are not legally binding and neither are treaties. Plenty of countries attach reservations before ratifying a convention or treaty and they may withdraw from either.

Wikipedia's political centre of gravity is well to the left so i'm not surprised about that linked article.
 
lionking said:
Seriously? Where is the international police which enforces these laws? What happens if countries do not consent to these laws?

Come on, you know the answers to these questions. A bit of honesty helps.
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Do you think laws didn't exist before police? Do you think because there are criminals there are no laws? What do you think the Torah is?
 
Planigale said:
Do you think laws didn't exist before police? Do you think because there are criminals there are no laws? What do you think the Torah is?
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Thanks for the (non) history lesson. Do you mind answering the question? Who enforces “international” law?
 
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lionking said:
Thanks for the (non) history lesson. Do you mind answering the question? Who enforces “international” law?
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There are a variety of mechanisms. Most cases go to a variety of international courts, e.g. ECHR if a state has been found to breach in that case international human rights law then they have to pat damages and correct the breach. If they fail to do so then a variety of sanctions may be exerted. Individuals may be brought before the ICC and may be tried and punished if found guilty. In some cases the enforcing authority is the security council (viz Korean war, gulf war).

As you seem keen to learn more about the subject I suggest you start here. Once you have read something about the topic you can come back and we can discuss further.

 
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