Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

[theprestige]

Does it even matter?

Kind of! The DSM makes it seem like AGP exists purely as a manifestation of a disorder. Since, anecdotally, I'm aware of "agp-seeming" erotic fantasies that don't correlate with transvestic disorder, I'm curious about the contours of the condition. If it's not part of TVD, does it count as AGP?

Whether or not there are people with autogynaephilia without transvestic disorder, there are people with a transvestic disorder who have autogynaephilia. They pose a concern for women when they enter women's intimate spaces.

I agree about this.

 

[Elaedith]

The letter to the tranny bashing website was posted months ago. I quoted from it.

If you have something new, I'm all ears.

No you did not. The only quote you posted was not from the source you claimed it was, and you subsequently admitted that.

You claimed to have posted a link to a source in which you said Blanchard admitted there is no evidence for AGP. I believe it was this one where neither Blanchard or Bailey say any such thing, and in fact say the opposite. You are lying again.
Are you used to interacting in groups where you can lie like this and have it accepted because you are reinforcing the narrative of the ingroup?

 

[Ziggurat]

I mean, I get aroused by the idea of the missionary position taken by two consenting adults, in the privacy of the bedroom.

I doubt that the "consenting" part is actually part of what arouses you. Instead, I think that the lack of consent is a turnoff for you (as it should be). Same with privacy: I doubt it's a turnon, rather, "in public" is a turnoff. There is a difference between something being a turnon and its inverse being a turnoff.

And being aroused by missionary position can absolutely manifest in malignant ways (though to be clear, I am not accusing you of that at all).

 

[theprestige]

I doubt that the "consenting" part is actually part of what arouses you. Instead, I think that the lack of consent is a turnoff for you (as it should be). Same with privacy: I doubt it's a turnon, rather, "in public" is a turnoff. There is a difference between something being a turnon and its inverse being a turnoff.

And being aroused by missionary position can absolutely manifest in malignant ways (though to be clear, I am not accusing you of that at all).

Haha, understood.

 

[Thermal]

It can't exist exclusively as a benign arousal. In the DSM, it exists exclusively as a manifestation of a disorder, which by definition is not benign.

It does not. It is a specifier, that indicates the pathway the disorder originated from. The pathway itself is not a manifestation; it was the benogn precursor. AGP is not a disorder or manifestation or symptom of anything. Definitionally.

It may exist as a benign arousal outside the context of the DSM,

Thay is all it is defined as, both in and out of the DSM.

but since it exists in the DSM as a malignant condition,

It does not.

it cannot exist exclusively as NOT a benign condition.

That is all it exists as, even as a specifier.

By what definition? In the DSM, it's defined exclusively as a manifestation of transvestic disorder.

It is not.

Are you using some other definition? Are you using your own bespoke definition, which may or may not be consistent with common or technical usage?

Im.using the one used by the relevant communities: a male's sexual arousal thought of one's self as a female.

 

[smartcooky]

There are some posts in the UK politics thread about a 'Walter Mitty' character who dressed like a Rear Admiral and attended a Remembrance Sunday ceremony. It looks like the principal that reality can be changed by the thoughts in someone's head, so firmly accepted on this forum that those posters who question it are forced to confine their blasphemy to this single thread which can safely be ignored by those who don't, may have exceptions after all.

Those posters you refer to call this thread "The Thread That Shall Not Be Named".

I prefer the title "The Thread Where Intellectual Cowards and Science Deniers Fear To Tread"

 

[Ziggurat]

Im.using the one used by the relevant communities: a male's sexual arousal thought of one's self as a female.

Can you understand why a female might not want to share an intimate space with such a male?

 

[Thermal]

Are you used to interacting in groups where you can lie like this and have it accepted because you are reinforcing the narrative of the ingroup?

You.might ask yourself the same question.

Actually, serious question: You don't seem involved much in this discussion at all unless Blanchard and Bailey come up, then you get really fired up. Do you have some kind of academic skin in their claims? Not meant to set up some kind of 'gotcha', but you seem really intensely invested in what they have to say.

 

[Thermal]

Can you understand why a female might not want to share an intimate space with such a male?

Of course. Why do you ask?

 

[Ziggurat]

Of course. Why do you ask?

Because that's what this whole debate is really about. Women want to be able to exclude men from their spaces. Either you agree with that, or you don't.

You keep acting like you don't.

 

[Thermal]

Because that's what this whole debate is really about. Women want to be able to exclude men from their spaces.

Some women want that. Some women value inclusivity enough to not object. Some may enjoy it. Many are indifferent. Some want to exclude lesbians. Some want to exclude other cis women. So what?

What some women may or may not want is part of the issue, but not all of it. Some women objected heartily to racially desegregating restrooms. Do you agree with how that one worked out?

Either you agree with that, or you don't.

Wrong again. Shall we discuss the Sea of Gray? And even in agreement or not, there is still a weighing of rights and wishes.

You keep acting like you don't.

Wrong again. I've said repeatedly that I am basically with your side, but often for different reasons. Ultimately, it's a question of what is fair and right, not what do some people who are not in the minority group want.

 

[smartcooky]

...is not accepted by the relevant professional communities.

These "relevant professional communities" that you seem to continually defer to, and hold in such high regard, recommend feeding children a life-altering cocktail of drugs with irreversible effects... they recommend butchering children by cutting healthy bits off their bodies, thereby ending any chance of them changing their minds as they grow up, ending their fertility, ending their ability to feel sexual pleasure, and sentencing them to life-long health problems, and has been recently shown, very likely shortening their lives by years.

◊◊◊◊ your "relevant professional communities" actually, ◊◊◊◊ ALL of them!

 

[Ziggurat]

Wrong again. I've said repeatedly that I am basically with your side, but often for different reasons.

Yes, you keep saying that, but you keep demonstrating that it's not true. You aren't on my side at all. Whenever it comes down to brass tacks, you take the TRA side.

 

[smartcooky]

We should ask the Scottish police what they have to say about this.

And ask about mile times!

 

[smartcooky]

No you did not. The only quote you posted was not from the source you claimed it was, and you subsequently admitted that.

You claimed to have posted a link to a source in which you said Blanchard admitted there is no evidence for AGP. I believe it was this one where neither Blanchard or Bailey say any such thing, and in fact say the opposite. You are lying again.
Are you used to interacting in groups where you can lie like this and have it accepted because you are reinforcing the narrative of the ingroup?

Probably!

 

[Thermal]

Yes, you keep saying that, but you keep demonstrating that it's not true. You aren't on my side at all. Whenever it comes down to brass tacks, you take the TRA side.

Then I have no idea how to help.you with your comprehension issues.

 

[Ziggurat]

Then I have no idea how to help.you with your comprehension issues.

Nobody here thinks you're on the gender critical side. Everyone here thinks you're on the TRA side. If I don't comprehend your true position, that might be my fault. If everyone doesn't comprehend your true position, that's probably yours.

But I believe you when you say you have no idea how to change that. You're probably being honest about that.

 

[Thermal]

Nobody here thinks you're on the gender critical side. Everyone here thinks you're on the TRA side. If I don't comprehend your true position, that might be my fault. If everyone doesn't comprehend your true position, that's probably yours.

The hilited is the operative word. In meatspace, I'm considered highly conservative on the matter. 'Here', amongst the Zealots, I'm considered a rabid Trans Rights Activist. And that says far more about 'here' than it does about yours truly.

But I believe you when you say you have no idea how to change that. You're probably being honest about that.

Word. You don't accept the English language postings, preferring your clairvoyant messages from beyond. Not my wheelhouse to help with.

 

[Ziggurat]

The hilited is the operative word. In meatspace, I'm considered highly conservative on the matter.

How is this at all relevant? I have no access to what you say and do in meatspace.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Still no. The symptom comes after. The specifier comes before. The specifier indicates the benign origin, as opposed to another benign origin. A symptom comes from a disorder in force.

You're simply wrong.