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General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 4

arthwollipot said:
The cost Israelis paid, while certainly not nothing and acknowledging that any cost is too high, is vastly less than the cost inflicted on Palestinians.
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I disagree, the cost to Israel has been more than that suffered in Gaza.

Gaza will get a true reset, sorely needed for decades. The people therein and Palestinians worldwide are being given an opportunity here. It's likely that Palestine Airlines air travel in and out of Gaza will again become routine (by restoring the concrete runways at Arafat International), along with properly-run ferry services into Cyprus, and al-Arish. Air-Taxis will skim from Gaza to Hebron in minutes, and the Mercedes' transit shuttles and busses will complete the journey for millions of pilgrims to alAqsa, as the Royal Jordanian Guards parade ceremonially across the courtyards of the Haram Al-Sharif.

That is the future of Gaza.

Israel gets nothing from this war.
 
arthwollipot said:
I started a thread to talk about Grokipedia:

arthwollipot

Thread 'Grokipedia'

For those who don't know, Grokipedia (no, I'm not going to bother to link to it) is Elon Musks "replacement" for Wikipedia. It is supposed to be an AI-generated encyclopedia of the internet.

Unfortunately, as we all know, AI cannot distinguish between fact and fiction. Grokipedia contains many factual errors and right-wing talking points, which is appropriate because so does Grok, the LLM that it's built over. Here's what academics have found when closely examining the information on Grokipedia...
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So you trust the "reliability" of information in Al Jazeera despite its being funded by the Qatari government, but distrust Grokipedia, which is AI generated, as right wing because it was founded by Elon Musk. You are digging your own grave.
 
We know what Gaza looks like. The leaders of that territory brought a full-blown war down upon everyone's heads.
The Houthis joined in, the Hezbollah joined in, even the Iranians took their shots.
What did everyone think would happen? A puff-marshmallow fight?

Look, we're at a point where the war can end. How wars end is usually when one side admits they are done and cannot sustain further damage. Perhaps Gaza's leaders got that message? I dunno, that's on them.

No, arthwollipot, I'm not kidding.
Gazans will ultimately benefit from this war. All Palestinians hopefully can emerge with an improved outlook towards their own NewPalestine Nation, living side-by-side with Israel in peace and cooperation. That is 180* opposite of what we have now.

Jared is right now, as I type this, developing an entire scenario for Israel & other countries to reconfigure Gaza as a real-estate deal.
With blockchains, NFT's, tokens, and other high-tech features of "land ownership" and investments.

Those who don't realize this is about to occur, aren't paying attention.

The continued whining and crying about the 'poor Palestinians of Gaza' is not going to get worldwide Palestinians anywhere. Making Zionism the 'whipping boy' of the MidEast is a fruitless endeavor.
Other pathways are going to be found.
(See: Federal option)
 
jt512 said:
So you trust the "reliability" of information in Al Jazeera despite its being funded by the Qatari government, but distrust Grokipedia, which is AI generated, as right wing because it was founded by Elon Musk. You are digging your own grave.
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That subject is now the discussion in another thread. Gravedigging or otherwise.

Al-Jazeera operates in Gaza as an outlet of HAMAS information & propaganda.
Local journalists working as stringers for A-J couldn't even go for a piss without HAMAS' permission.
They announced (correctly) that Goldin's remains were being returned, because HAMAS clearly wanted that information to be released.

WAFA is the official Palestinian Authority media outlet.
When I want news about the Palestinians, that's my go-to.
I understand their POV, and am not being misled about them being "impartial" or "independent" --- right at the top of their masthead, appear the words:
"Telling the Palestinian narrative with speed, accuracy and efficiency"
 
jt512 said:
So you trust the "reliability" of information in Al Jazeera despite its being funded by the Qatari government, but distrust Grokipedia, which is AI generated, as right wing because it was founded by Elon Musk. You are digging your own grave.
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Dude. I literally just started a new thread to talk about this.
 
plenty of news agencies are State Funded and still do objectively better reporting than most privately owned media companies.

I'm sure jt is dismissing all media companies owned or run by Jews as biased, too.

Right?
 
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We are seeing videos of Palestinian civilians being tortured and raped in Israeli prisons, or brutally beaten by Israeli with State support, and all people say is " I don't like the person who gave me this information". No a peep of condemnation.

Shame on you.
 
"the BBC's efforts to help to dehumanize Palestinian civilians".

Arjen Rudd in the Lethal Weapon movies was a civilian diplomat. He was also a drug lord and a multiple murderer.

I again refer you back to what Calbear over at alternatehistory dot com said:

Much more important is the absolutely stunning % of German civilians who took part in the civil administration of, among other twho took part in the civil administration of, among other things, the business side of the death camp industry.

There is no way to whitewash that sort of willingness, none. It is one thing to be afraid to speak up when people are being snatched off the street out of fear, cowardice & self-preservation, all can be very strong emotions. It is entirely another to happily and willingly aid in the crimes being committed against humanity, something that MILLIONS of non-Nazi Parry members did on a daily basis.
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The Great Zaganza said:
We are seeing videos of Palestinian civilians being tortured and raped in Israeli prisons, or brutally beaten by Israeli with State support, and all people say is " I don't like the person who gave me this information". No a peep of condemnation.

Shame on you.
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It's worse than that. The people here are saying "this is justified" and "Israelis are paying a higher cost than Palestinians".

It's gross and it's monstrous.
 
It was/is MORE than justified. This war was ESSENTIAL after being IMPOSED upon Israel.

The monstrosity and evil and grossness can be attributed to the actions of HAMAS.
That strip of coastal land looks like it does today due 100% to those disgusting HAMAS cretins.

Gaza will be reinvigorated. (lots of investments)
Gaza will be redistricted (no more 1949 Lines).
Gaza will be rejuvenated (without the HAMAS islamic jihadist army).

America is going to assist.
www.jpost.com

US considers building major military base on Gaza border | The Jerusalem Post

The prospective site would allegedly be capable of housing thousands of American troops and serve future international stabilization efforts.
www.jpost.com www.jpost.com
 
arthwollipot said:
Note: This is a direct statement that user @webfusion believes that torture and rape is justified.

This is monstrous.
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The ShinBet/IDF interrogations of prisoners is vital to the pursuit of HAMAS, to the last commander, into the last tunnel. The ceasefire doesn't prohibit IDF continuing to pursue targeted missions against ongoing threats.

www.reuters.com

Israeli parliament advances death penalty bill backed by Ben-Gvir

The Israeli parliament has advanced a bill that would mandate the death penalty for Palestinian militants convicted of killing Israeli citizens, with some lawmakers believing it would prevent future prisoner-release deals.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
 
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cause and effect matters.

The Green Line has not existed for nearly 59 years.

The Arab leadership didn't understand, whether in 1948 or the "intafadas" not to start wars that you are not prepared to lose.
 
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Just a note: The left opposes the fact that was the Unionist-controlled pre-1972 Stormont as disregarding self-determination and equal rights for the Catholics (and atheists and more) -- but support the 1947-8 Arab Muslim attempt to impose such a regime in the territory of Mandate Palestine.
 
NatalieSalat said:
The far left and the far right have more in common than either will ever admit.

If you say you don't want Islam as the state religion and such in a Palestinian state, Why are you not doing anything forceful to prevent that?
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You do know that a significant number of Palestinians are Christians, and the Palestinian state proposed was always a non-Islamic state (even Hamas recognises the rights of Christians). Israelis meanwhile attacks Christian villages in the West Bank.
 
Chanakya said:
I agree, and sympathize, don't blame you in the least. In this benighted world we live in, it's difficult, maybe impossible, to separate the real thing from parody. No matter how utterly, impossibly brazen your attempted depiction of vileness and halfwittery and disingenuousness, you'll actually find the exact same being spouted in all earnestness. Both IRL, and as that is reflected in this little forum of ours. Be it the orange grotesquerie, and his witless spineless sycophants; or be it the genocidal war criminal Netanyahu and his bunch of empathy-bereft, ethics-free propagandists.

(My first impulse was to snidely and indirectly call you out on your antisemitism, and for your support of Hamas, continuing with the parody over one more comment. But I decided not to, this nonsense was good for one single post, any more would probably be stretching it too far.)
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I am probably the only person posting here who is married to someone who served in the IDF. Being opposed to the actions of the present Israeli government is not anti-Semitic. The denial of the reality of Israeli state terrorism and multiple crimes against humanity only makes you look blind. You are deliberately trying to avoid seeing the reality before you and resorting to ad hominem attacks.

You can find multiple accounts of how German PoWs were treated in the UK. The policy was simple Britain was better than Germany, it obeyed the rules of law. Israel could have decided that it was better than Palestinian terrorists, that it would allow ICRC access to prisoners, that it would not allow abuse of prisoners, but the present Israeli government decided it could be as wicked as its enemies. I have always been explicit in condemning the crimes committed by Hamas. I am also explicit in condemning the crimes committed by the Israeli government. the crimes are similar in nature, but the magnitude of the crimes by the Israeli government is greater, just because they have more fire power. When eichman was hunted he was to be captured alive and tried. Golda Meir said no innocents should be killed in the hunt for the Munich terrorists. Now we see any amount of innocents are to be sacrificed in the hunt for the 7/10 terrorists. A perfect illustration of the slippery slope once governments decide they are above the law.

Extra-judicial murder now seems de rigour, with the US carrying out extra-judicial executions of alleged criminals.
 
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