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Split Thread Are Antifa and violent leftists the cause of everything wrong in America?


here’s an interview with antifa members, starts around 24m. they talk a bit about the organization and some other things
 
Matthew Best said:
Meanwhile anything bad done by people who describe themselves as "Antifa" is dismissed as they aren't the "Antifa" that Trump is describing. What a productive discussion we're having!
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Nobody in their right mind is going to deny that some antifa-identifying people/groups will occasionally do bad things. That's going to be true of any large ideology.

There are some Christians who have committed sex crimes. Some have killed children. Some have plotted terrorist attacks. It would be utterly ridiculous for me to then designate all of Christianity as a singular homicidal terrorist organization full of rapists.
 
I Am The Scum said:
Nobody in their right mind is going to deny that some antifa-identifying people/groups will occasionally do bad things.
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I think the issue is, nobody can come up with a list of good things antifa-identifying people have done. During the 2020 Portland riots, violent demonstrators barricaded people inside a government building, and then firebombed it. But that's not antifa, we're told. Antifa are the other guys. Well, which other guys? The ones running a food bank and a rehab center and a sober shelter? Nope. Antifa-identifying people don't play that. The entire brand of the movement is political violence. Anonymous, disavowable political violence.
 
theprestige said:
I think the issue is, nobody can come up with a list of good things antifa-identifying people have done. During the 2020 Portland riots, violent demonstrators barricaded people inside a government building, and then firebombed it. But that's not antifa, we're told. Antifa are the other guys. Well, which other guys? The ones running a food bank and a rehab center and a sober shelter? Nope. Antifa-identifying people don't play that. The entire brand of the movement is political violence. Anonymous, disavowable political violence.
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Who is "antifa-identifying" though?

More to the point, why would you expect a philosophy opposed to fascism to be running a rehab center, sober shelter, or food bank? Certainly there are people who are opposed to the fascist tactics of the current government in the US who are also working at food banks, running shelters, and rehab clinics, but trying to tie the 2 together seems rather disingenuous on your part.
Moreso, as we watch ICE thugs arresting preschool teachers on school grounds while the sitting President declares antifa a terroristic organization, your stance of wanting anyone running a food bank or rehab center who is opposed to fascism to declare themselves seems like a nihilistic way of shutting down those organizations.
 
theprestige said:
"Fascism".


Cargo-cult activism is indeed a negative. Cargo-cult activism that manifests as poltiical violence doubly so.
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You are so right; protesting is useless. It's not as if there was any blue wins on Tuesday. And, so you don't have to say it; of course that didn't have anything to do with getting frogs and grantifas out on the streets, it would of course have happened in exactly the same way if everybody had just stayed home and kept shtum. It's not as if people find hope and courage, and start taking action, when they realise that others agree with them, and will stand with them. Never, ever happens!

No, it's all just a cargo-cult. No plane will ever land on that pretend airstrip. Better do nothing. Or maybe just keep denying that fascism really is fascism, while the fascists openly discuss how to rig coming elections in favour of the fascists. Wait, what does that remind me of? The whole "deny they're fascists, and maybe they won't do fascist stuff"? Nope. Can't quite put my finger on it. Some kind of cult, maybe?
 
Helen said:
You are so right; protesting is useless. It's not as if there was any blue wins on Tuesday. And, so you don't have to say it; of course that didn't have anything to do with getting frogs and grantifas out on the streets, it would of course have happened in exactly the same way if everybody had just stayed home and kept shtum. It's not as if people find hope and courage, and start taking action, when they realise that others agree with them, and will stand with them. Never, ever happens!

No, it's all just a cargo-cult. No plane will ever land on that pretend airstrip. Better do nothing. Or maybe just keep denying that fascism really is fascism, while the fascists openly discuss how to rig coming elections in favour of the fascists. Wait, what does that remind me of? The whole "deny they're fascists, and maybe they won't do fascist stuff"? Nope. Can't quite put my finger on it. Some kind of cult, maybe?
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"Fascism."
 
Antifa seems to be more of a label applied to perpetrators of antisocial acts than an identity actually claimed by anyone (except in a defiant and perhaps mocking way). It's rather like "vandalism" in that regard, and obviously declaring The Vandals to be a terrorist organisation doesn't mean or achieve very much.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
Antifa seems to be more of a label applied to perpetrators of antisocial acts than an identity actually claimed by anyone (except in a defiant and perhaps mocking way). It's rather like "vandalism" in that regard, and obviously declaring The Vandals to be a terrorist organisation doesn't mean or achieve very much.
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Counterpoint:

en.wikipedia.org

Rose City Antifa - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
Indeed. There are groups which call themselves Antifa, but it's probably worth distinguishing between people who campaign, or indeed protest, and call themselves Antifa, and violent and destructive acts like rioting and smashing stuff up which others label Antifa. The circles in that venn diagram may be more widely separated than some here expect.
 
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