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Does 'rape culture' accurately describe (many) societies?

arthwollipot said:
You have not. You have only argued that "it's different because reasons! *hand wave*".
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it's different because they made that argument with video games, music, and movies in the late 80s and early 90s and it turned out to be stupid.

i think that porn addiction is a somewhat interesting topic though. obviously, drugs and alcohol can be addicting and that addiction can cause some undesirable behaviors. i used to think gambling addiction was kind of a cop out, but i'm pretty sold that it's a real thing and now that it's more mainstream than ever we're going to see how bad it'll get.

however, i'm not at all sold that porn is addictive and that consuming it significantly changes people's behavior. and yes, poem, i've seen the handful of sources you repeatedly quote that say the opposite, so you don't need to do that again. also, the only solution being offered by poem is a ban which is not only unrealistic but would lead to the situation becoming even worse imo so there's really not a lot to talk about there that hasn't been discussed to death 50 pages ago.

in any case, i think the discussion around social media influencing the youth towards negative behavior is much more interesting, but that encompasses way more than porn.
 
arthwollipot said:
When the reason for the lack of answer (its irrelevancy) is ignored.
I just did, in the very post you quoted.
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Let's start again - do you have an issue with anyone identifying as an age that is different from the current system of solar years since birth? It's relevant because one could, if one accepted self ID in this respect, proceed to feature underage actors in porn (etc).
arthwollipot said:
You didn't, explicitly, but that is literally the only context in which I have seen the "self-identify as a different age" argument raised, so I think most would agree that my assumption is warranted.
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You are also going to report me if I talk about it.
arthwollipot said:
And why should we give a ◊◊◊◊ what the Bible says, right?
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You brought up the subject of dead people deciding such matters.
arthwollipot said:
Your argument is firmly based in the idea that people will act out what they see in movies. In porn, "choking" scenes are not only simulated, they are obviously simulated. You can see them breathing while being "choked". It's no more real than in any other movie.


You have not. You have only argued that "it's different because reasons! *hand wave*".
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See my previous answers.
 
Poem said:
Let's start again - do you have an issue with anyone identifying as an age that is different from the current system of solar years since birth? It's relevant because one could, if one accepted self ID in this respect, proceed to feature underage actors in porn (etc).
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See my previous answers.
 
arthwollipot said:
See my previous answers.
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Which was:
Identifying as a different age is not the same thing as identifying as a gender different from the one you were assigned at birth. It is an inappropriate analogy.

Nothing there that answers the question. If a child feels older than their age, should they be allowed to be treated as an adult? We know that different bodies and different organs age at different rates, right?
 
This board has gone over the age thing in the past and having been around for a couple of those the position that makes sense to me is "some people genuinely are dumb as teenagers forever or wiser than adults while still underage" BUT for meaningful, informed consent issues, which is what the "age of consent" is trying to address, the outliers must be constrained by rules for the average or the whole thing becomes unenforceable. (similarly some people may be perfectly able to drive safely at high speeds, and others are terrible at any speed, but they all get the speed limit meant for typical safety)

So if a person feels they are an outlier (I feel as mature as a 30 yr old but my ID says 15, or vice versa) sorry. We'll use what's on the ID for legal purposes. But just dressing or acting other than typical for your age? So what?

Putting on a school uniform as a costume? So what? Never seen Beverly Hills 90210 (or porn parodies of it? Not exactly scandalous.)
 
Lithrael said:
This board has gone over the age thing in the past and having been around for a couple of those the position that makes sense to me is "some people genuinely are dumb as teenagers forever or wiser than adults while still underage" BUT for meaningful, informed consent issues, which is what the "age of consent" is trying to address, the outliers must be constrained by rules for the average or the whole thing becomes unenforceable. (similarly some people may be perfectly able to drive safely at high speeds, and others are terrible at any speed, but they all get the speed limit meant for typical safety)

So if a person feels they are an outlier (I feel as mature as a 30 yr old but my ID says 15, or vice versa) sorry. We'll use what's on the ID for legal purposes. But just dressing or acting other than typical for your age? So what?

Putting on a school uniform as a costume? So what? Never seen Beverly Hills 90210 (or porn parodies of it? Not exactly scandalous.)
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The principle being we protect vulnerable groups from potential abusers.
 
Poem said:
The principle being we protect vulnerable groups from potential abusers.
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A thing existing somewhere is not abuse. Alcohol existing in a house is not prosectuted as providing alcohol to a child. Porn existing on the internet behind a nominal gate is not IMO providing porn to a child.
 
Lithrael said:
A thing existing somewhere is not abuse. Alcohol existing in a house is not prosectuted as providing alcohol to a child. Porn existing on the internet behind a nominal gate is not IMO providing porn to a child.
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We've crossed wires...but to address your post - well, I would be repeating my total disagreement with you.
 
To be clearer, I don't have a problem with real life relationships with anyone representing themselves as younger through dress or mannerism as long as 1) their partner knows their legal age and 2) their legal age wouldn't make the relationship a statutory offense.

And I don't have a problem with fantasy porn where the fantasy is a bunch of actors in school uniform costumes. I'd have to consider where the line is where I'd get icked out but it's certainly not with a bunch of actors that look 18-30.
 
It's been said before that the cutoff line of legal majority is completely arbitrary anyway. A line has to be drawn somewhere, and as a society we have decided that it is at 18. You are just the same on the day before your 18th birthday as you are on the day after. And yet, you can watch and perform in porn today when you couldn't yesterday. This is absurd, but it is legally necessary. It's even more absurd in the US where you have to wait another three years before you're allowed to drink alcohol.
 
arthwollipot said:
It's been said before that the cutoff line of legal majority is completely arbitrary anyway. A line has to be drawn somewhere, and as a society we have decided that it is at 18. You are just the same on the day before your 18th birthday as you are on the day after. And yet, you can watch and perform in porn today when you couldn't yesterday. This is absurd, but it is legally necessary. It's even more absurd in the US where you have to wait another three years before you're allowed to drink alcohol.
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Here's Lithrael's view:
Lithrael said:
To be clearer, I don't have a problem with real life relationships with anyone representing themselves as younger through dress or mannerism as long as 1) their partner knows their legal age and 2) their legal age wouldn't make the relationship a statutory offense.
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Do you agree?
 
arthwollipot said:
I've already responded to that question. Why the fringe reset?
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You won't answer the question - presumably because of the implications. All you have said is that it not the same as gender.

Do you agree with Lithrael? Yes or no?
 
Poem said:
You won't answer the question - presumably because of the implications. All you have said is that it not the same as gender.
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That's right. It's a stupid and irrelevant question. I deny its premise, and I deny the gotcha that you are trying to achieve by asking it.

Poem said:
Do you agree with Lithrael? Yes or no?
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I've definitely answered that. Scroll up a little. Yes. I answered yes. I agree with Lithrael. Did you miss that, somehow?

Any kind of kink is fine with me - as long as it is done safely and with consent from all parties involved.
 
arthwollipot said:
...I agree with Lithrael...
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Meaning you agree with:
Lithrael said:
........ 2) their legal age wouldn't make the relationship a statutory offense.
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?

I also asked: Do you think that adults should have the legal right to self-identify as underage and vice-versa?

You haven't answered that. You might accept the law as is - but I am asking you if you think the law needs to change?
 
arthwollipot said:
Any kind of kink is fine with me - as long as it is done safely and with consent from all parties involved.
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That's a pretty comprehensive affirmation of the pre-eminence of individuality is it not? It is certainly the fertile soil within which porn thrives.
 
Helen said:
You do not agree that kinks are fine, provided that there's consent, and everyone's safe? How very strange.
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There would, I think, be many aspects to this. My comments were made in the context of porn.
 
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