It's in the thread title. If you want to discuss Antifa, you need to discuss what they've done. Five years is not too distant a memory.
Split Thread Are Antifa and violent leftists the cause of everything wrong in America?
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arthwollipot
Limerick Purist
As an amateur historian, I am fully cognisant of the importance of historical context, but can you demonstrate that Antifa is actively conducting violent protests now? 'Cos what I'm seeing is frog suits and street parties.
Communism always is a threat anywhere and anytime it emerges. It has more than a century track record of universally brutal failures in scores of countries and billions of lives. Why would you think this time would be different?
What little I know about him, as I haven't paid close attention to him, is that he wants to nationalize private industry. Right now, he's New York's problem, in which I have little influence.
Susheel
Illuminator
Really? Where did you hear that?
arthwollipot
Limerick Purist
Can you show that it has emerged or is emerging in America today?
AmyStrange
Philosopher
Fire and LE departments are examples of a socialist ideology, which some people think is equivalent to communism, which some folks think is a form of marxism.
Unfortunately, they don't know that the Marxist end game is to eliminate the government and class system.
One thing Karl Marx got wrong is his belief that change can only come about through violence, but he never explains how we can change from day to night or thousands of other changes like that which don't involve any violence whatsoever.
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Some of the men who were in the group of ten people who shot up a Texas ICE facility a few months ago are alleged by the feds as members of an Antifa cell. I haven't heard of Antifa engaging in violence at protests, just in direct attacks against ICE and law enforcement.
DOJ says a "North Texas Antifa Cell" attacked a Texas ICE facility on July 4, two men now indicted with a terrorism offense
The Justice Department charged two North Texas men with terrorism, accusing them of organizing an antifa-linked July 4 attack on an Alvarado ICE facility.
www.cbsnews.com
AmyStrange
Philosopher
Some of the men who were in the group of ten people who shot up a Texas ICE facility a few months ago are alleged by the feds as members of an Antifa cell. I haven't heard of Antifa engaging in violence at protests, just in direct attacks against ICE and law enforcement.
DOJ says a "North Texas Antifa Cell" attacked a Texas ICE facility on July 4, two men now indicted with a terrorism offense
The Justice Department charged two North Texas men with terrorism, accusing them of organizing an antifa-linked July 4 attack on an Alvarado ICE facility.
"antifa link" bwahahahaha...
Here's their definition of antifa:
So IOW, anyone advocating violence is antifa.
What a stupid definition, and the reason I say that is because it doesn't really matter if they're antifa or not, if they do violence, then they're antifa.
A sort of Catch 22 situation where if you're peaceful, you're not, but if you're violent, then you are.
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Various news sources.
Mamdani referenced ‘seizing the means of production’ in ‘21
Zohran Mamdani, a democratic socialist, in 2021 used the phrase “seizing the means of production.” He did not elaborate on that and we could not find evidence that it was part of his 2025 New York City mayoral platform.
www.politifact.com
New York Braces for a Mayor Mamdani
Zohran Mamdani, the 33-year-old Democratic Socialist running for New York City mayor, is coasting toward city hall. He has won over younger voters with promises to freeze rents, provide free child care for infants and toddlers, and open city-run grocery stores to cut living costs. His appeal...
www.city-journal.org
Yes, but why this sudden interest in current Communist affairs? Somebody claimed that Communism wasn't as bad as Fascism, which I corrected, and now you want me to show that Communism is rising in the US.
Susheel
Illuminator
I thought advocating violence is what 'muricans did. Isn't that supposedly the foundation of the second amendment. To enable true blood 'muricans to take arms against an oppressive regime? Isn't the celebration of the Battle Flag during repug rallies basically a celebration of armed resistance? It is ironic that right wing
sympathizers (I am using this term diplomatically and what's in my mind is much harsher.) are now clutching pearls at a bunch of people in frog costumes twerking to Taylor Swift?
sympathizers (I am using this term diplomatically and what's in my mind is much harsher.) are now clutching pearls at a bunch of people in frog costumes twerking to Taylor Swift?
AmyStrange
Philosopher
In its purest form, communism isn't as bad as fascism, but the problem is that power hungry people get involved and that's the end of anything resembling what's good about communism, or at least that's how my college, history teacher explained it anyway.
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Susheel
Illuminator
So the first one says he "mentioned 'seizing the means of production'" without providing evidence of the actual quote and in what context it was said. It also says that there is no evidence of it being a part of his current run.Various news sources.
Mamdani referenced ‘seizing the means of production’ in ‘21
Zohran Mamdani, a democratic socialist, in 2021 used the phrase “seizing the means of production.” He did not elaborate on that and we could not find evidence that it was part of his 2025 New York City mayoral platform.
New York Braces for a Mayor Mamdani
Zohran Mamdani, the 33-year-old Democratic Socialist running for New York City mayor, is coasting toward city hall. He has won over younger voters with promises to freeze rents, provide free child care for infants and toddlers, and open city-run grocery stores to cut living costs. His appeal...
The second one talks about the establishment of cooperative stores, a perfectly logical customer friendly, and employment generating solution to the bane of runaway capitalism.
Hyperbole much?
And also, I know I might be suspended for this, nut have to ask...Bubba, is that you?
Susheel
Illuminator
This is the quote they claimed to prove that Mamdani is communist:
"But then there are also other issues that we firmly believe in, whether it's BDS (Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions of Israel), right, or whether it's the end goal of seizing the means of production, where we do not have the same level of support at this very moment.
"And what I want to say is that it is critical that the way that we organize, the way that we set up our you know, set up our work and our priorities, that we do not leave any one issue for the other, that we do not meet a moment and only look at what people are ready for, but that we are doing both of these things in tandem, because it is critical for us to both meet people where they're at and to also organize and organize for what is correct and for what is right and to ensure over time we can bring people to that issue."
I see it as a perfectly reasonable argument. Where is the bogeyman?
"But then there are also other issues that we firmly believe in, whether it's BDS (Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions of Israel), right, or whether it's the end goal of seizing the means of production, where we do not have the same level of support at this very moment.
"And what I want to say is that it is critical that the way that we organize, the way that we set up our you know, set up our work and our priorities, that we do not leave any one issue for the other, that we do not meet a moment and only look at what people are ready for, but that we are doing both of these things in tandem, because it is critical for us to both meet people where they're at and to also organize and organize for what is correct and for what is right and to ensure over time we can bring people to that issue."
I see it as a perfectly reasonable argument. Where is the bogeyman?
Violence has an appropriate time and place. Protest marches are not the time nor the place. I don't know who here has said anything about frogs and Swift, other than you.
And...? Why are you telling me this?
Susheel
Illuminator
So where was the violence during the No Kings protests?
Susheel
Illuminator
The current ICE protests that you seem to have a problem with are primarily this.
AmyStrange
Philosopher
I've said it, and so have a lot of frogs in Portland, but since that's an actual fact, I know you'll ignore it.
Where did you hear that there was violence?