Trump's Second Term

[P.J. Denyer]

Only a complete fruitcake would make that claim.

Maybe she's doing it cos she needs the bread?

 

[Aridas]

Barack Obama (2009-2017):

"If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan, period."

Weak. To be clear, this certainly was a Democratic Party lie of note, but if you're trying to equate it in any way to the fire hose of lies and BS that the Republican Party's been spewing, it's nothing. The harm and deaths that resulted from Trump's COVID lies alone are orders of magnitude worse.

"I will close Guantanamo Bay detention center."

He tried. Presidents in the US are not all powerful, though, and Republicans in Congress managed to prevent it from being closed. Again, a really weak try.

Healthcare premiums would decrease by $2,500 for the typical family under the Affordable Care Act (ACA).

There's an extremely important bit of context and the promise that you're missing there. The promise was not that healthcare premiums would actually decrease, but that the projected increase under the ACA compared to without it would be significantly slower, hence the saving money claim. Doubtless, you can find instances where Obama didn't properly qualify that, when taken out of context, but again, this is stretching the truth immensely.

"Ending the War in Iraq" (completely).

Yeah, this just gets an eyeroll from me. You're not really even trying, by this point, by the look of it.

Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)

The U.S. would not commit a large number of combat troops to Vietnam.

You're really, really stretching, eh? What's next? Are you going to invoke the Democratic Party from around Civil War times?

Really, on the one hand, we have the Republican Party. The Republican Party's success relies upon their promotion of beliefs that are almost completely fantasy. On the other hand, we have the Democratic Party, who tend to mostly deal with truth and reality. Trying to equate the two is wildly dishonest.

On the one hand, we have the Republican Party that has long been putting Party over Country and trying to do harm to the US in various ways as part of political ploys. The Two Santa Clauses strategy, for example, is particularly vile and dishonest. On the other hand, we have the Democratic Party... with nothing within orders of magnitude of that bad. Trying to equate the two is wildly dishonest on that front, too.

 

[Resume]

That may be so, but he isn't wrong about illegal immigrants being illegal. He's President, the people who voted him into office want somebody to fix that problem.

It is so. You know what else is illegal? Fraud. 34 counts of it in fact.

He lied about migrants being all rapists and murderers and criminals and escapees from (snicker) mental asylums. He created the monster and his drooling sycophants nod along as he pretends to slay it. He lies so he can send masked cowards to blue cites to suppress opposition and ultimately, the vote. He will send actual troops to occupy if and when he can get away with it. To falsely portray U.S. cities like Chicago and Portland as war zones so he can get away with this ◊◊◊◊ is just plain evil.

◊◊◊◊ me, this ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ "both sides do it" is such a worn out shibboleth since the ascent of Trump and his maga faithfuls, his supplicants and sycophants and hangers-on.

 

[Resume]

Weak. To be clear, this certainly was a Democratic Party lie of note, but if you're trying to equate it in anyway to the fire hose of lies and BS that the Republican Party's been spewing, it's nothing. The harm and deaths that resulted from Trump's COVID lies alone are orders of magnitude worse.



He tried. Presidents in the US are not all powerful, though, and Republicans in Congress managed to prevent it from being closed. Again, a really weak try.



There's an extremely important bit of context and the promise that you're missing there. The promise was not that healthcare premiums would actually decrease, but that the projected increase under the ACA compared to without it would be significantly slower, hence the saving money claim. Doubtless, you can find instances where Obama didn't properly qualify that, when taken out of context, but again, this is stretching the truth immensely.



Yeah, this just gets an eyeroll from me. You're not really even trying, by this point, by the look of it.


You're really, really stretching, eh? What's next? Are you going to invoke the Democratic Party from around Civil War times?

Really, on the one hand, we have the Republican Party. The Republican Party's success relies upon their promotion of beliefs that are almost completely fantasy. One the other hand, we have the Democratic Party, who tend to mostly deal with truth and reality. Trying to equate the two is wildly dishonest.

On the one hand, we have the Republican Party that has long been putting Party over Country and trying to do harm to the US in various ways as part of political ploys. The Two Santa Clauses strategy, for example, is particularly vile and dishonest. On the other hand, we have the Democratic Party... with nothing within orders of magnitude of that bad. Trying to equate the two is wildly dishonest on that front, too.

There a gulf of difference between a failed campaign promise and an attempt to malign a whole group of people by repeating outlandish lies about them in order to create fear. "They're eating the cats and dogs! They're eating the pets!"

 

[Andy_Ross]

It is so. You know what else is illegal? Fraud. 34 counts of it in fact.

He lied about migrants being all rapists and murderers and criminals and escapees from (snicker) mental asylums. He created the monster and his drooling sycophants nod along as he pretends to slay it. He lies so he can send masked cowards to blue cites to suppress opposition and ultimately, the vote. He will send actual troops to occupy if and when he can get away with it. To falsely portray U.S. cities like Chicago and Portland as was zones so he can get away with this ◊◊◊◊ is just plain evil.

◊◊◊◊ me, this ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ "both sides do it" is such a worn out shibboleth since the ascent of Trump and his maga faithfuls, his supplicants and sycophants and hangers-on.

Why do you hate America?

 

[Aridas]

The essential, core point of what you are discussing is that illegal immigrants are in the US illegally. ICE is an official government agency tasked with preventing illegal border crossings and removing people who are in the US illegally. Obstructing that function is a felony. Whatever lies the Trump Administration uses to argue for removing illegal immigrants doesn't change these facts.

Just to be clear, while this may sound largely reasonable when removed from context, "The essential, core point of what you are discussing" makes it a lie.

Further, to add examples of more things of relevance that you seem to have pointedly ignored even here, objecting to and obstructing ICE from performing various illegal actions that they should not be committing is not a felony. ICE has earned a reputation for lawlessness, callousness, and unreasonability by its choices of actions, especially during Republican Administrations. This has real consequences. Consequences that are often protected by the First Amendment.

 

[AmyStrange]

Barack Obama (2009-2017):

"If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan, period."

"I will close Guantanamo Bay detention center."

Healthcare premiums would decrease by $2,500 for the typical family under the Affordable Care Act (ACA).

"Ending the War in Iraq" (completely).

Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)

The U.S. would not commit a large number of combat troops to Vietnam.

IOW, because these guys did it, it's ok that the fat clown and his maga weirdoes do it too. Got it.

More proof that trumpsplaining is the new stupid.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Canada had to pay a price!

BREAM: How do trade talks get back on with Canada?

BESSENT: We'll see. This is very serious. This prime minister of Ontario, who I imagine is smarting quite a bit from the Blue Jays loss last night, spent $75m trying to sway US public opinion. This is foreign interference in US public policy. A price has got to be paid for this

https://twitter.com/x/status/1985013856343597530

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Deleted.

 

[ZiprHead]

"I will close Guantanamo Bay detention center."

He tried but it was blocked by the Republicans.

 

[Opcode]

Weak.

Not to people who depended on it.

To be clear, this certainly was a Democratic Party lie of note, but if you're trying to equate it in anyway to the fire hose of lies and BS that the Republican Party's been spewing, it's nothing.

Some of the things I hear my fellow Republicans asserting are troubling. However, those things present few practical problems for me. The Democrats, though, present an existential threat to what I hold dear.
OK, how about this:

Antifa violence is a myth.

The harm and deaths that resulted from Trump's COVID lies alone are orders of magnitude worse.

No, I'm going to fight you on that one. From the start, Donald Trump did his best to keep Chinese nationals out of this country when the epidemic first broke (before it was even declared a pandemic), but Democrats retaliated by declaring Hug A Chinese Day. As I recall, Nancy Pelosi chose that time to make a visit to Chinatown, just to express solidarity with the Chinese. They tried to paint it as Trump is racist. So, COVID came to this country. Admittedly, it likely would have, eventually, but it isn't right claiming that Trump was the problem.

Trump launched Operation Warp Speed (OWS), which proved critical in developing a vaccine against SARS-CoV2. The government invoked the Defense Production Act (DPA) and appropriate massive amounts of funding into fighting COVID. A trillion dollars of federal spending is attributable to Trump's actions fighting COVID.

He tried. Presidents in the US are not all powerful, though, and Republicans in Congress managed to prevent it from being closed. Again, a really weak try.

Too bad that Trump doesn't get a pass for having Democratic or institutional opposition.

Several of the initiatives that Trump is tackling are issues that have festered, rotted, in our society for decades, but nobody else would touch them. Democrats have been protecting these things, which should in many cases result in the arrest, convictions and prison sentences of a lot of Democrats. They haven't played nice in more than half a century. That's why I'm able to tolerate what Trump is doing now. You richly deserve all of this and more! It's necessary, because the morally and mentally depraved have a firm grip on power in this country and across much of the world.

There's an extremely important bit of context and the promise that you're missing there. The promise was not that healthcare premiums would actually decrease, but that the projected increase under the ACA compared to without it would be significantly slower, hence the saving money claim.

An empty claim.

Yeah, this just gets an eyeroll from me. You're not really even trying, by this point, by the look of it.

Some people must have thought it important, or he wouldn't have said it.

Really, on the one hand, we have the Republican Party. The Republican Party's success relies upon their promotion of beliefs that are almost completely fantasy.

That's pretty much true of every political group that has existed for the last thousand years. Probably much longer.

On the other hand, we have the Democratic Party, who tend to mostly deal with truth and reality.

Wow! That isn't even close to true!

 

[Opcode]

It is so. You know what else is illegal? Fraud. 34 counts of it in fact.

All based on one party claiming that the value of property is not what the other party claimed it was. Tell me how we could know what the actual property values were? The entire prosecution of this case is questionable. Stacking state misdemeanor (falsifying business records) with an uncharged state election law violation (conspiracy to influence an election), which was itself predicated on uncharged federal or state violations, is contentious.

He lied about migrants being all rapists and murderers and criminals and escapees from (snicker) mental asylums.

He never said that all migrants are rapists and murderers and criminals and escapees from mental asylums.

He lies so he can send masked cowards to blue cites to suppress opposition and ultimately, the vote.

As opposed to the Democrats, who defy federal law to shelter people who are in the US illegally, a crime that incidentally benefits the Democratic Party politically. And then they have the stupidity of attacking federal agents with rocks and other weapons. These criminal actions are and have been openly committed by Democratic Party leadership for decades.

He will send actual troops to occupy if and when he can get away with it. To falsely portray U.S. cities like Chicago and Portland as war zones so he can get away with this ◊◊◊◊ is just plain evil.

Meanwhile, somebody in another thread is trying to use Chicago as evidence that the US is horribly violent. Funny how that city gets used both ways!

 

[Flo]

Canada had to pay a price!

BREAM: How do trade talks get back on with Canada?

BESSENT: We'll see. This is very serious. This prime minister of Ontario, who I imagine is smarting quite a bit from the Blue Jays loss last night, spent $75m trying to sway US public opinion. This is foreign interference in US public policy. A price has got to be paid for this

https://twitter.com/x/status/1985013856343597530

This kind of cheap jibe shows two things:
- He has nothing of substance to say on the subject,
- Like his boss and most of his colleagues, he's a petulant, witless toddler.

… and despite this childish nonsense, there are still people who pretend this is the kind of people who will make their country great again

 

[Opcode]

Just to be clear, while this may sound largely reasonable when removed from context, "The essential, core point of what you are discussing" makes it a lie.

No, it makes it clear what the central, core point is.

Further, to add examples of more things of relevance that you seem to have pointedly ignored even here, objecting to and obstructing ICE from performing various illegal actions that they should not be committing is not a felony. ICE has earned a reputation for lawlessness, callousness, and unreasonability by its choices of actions, especially during Republican Administrations. This has real consequences. Consequences that are often protected by the First Amendment.

I've yet to see anybody even claim a specific illegal activity by ICE, much less have it proved in court. Regardless, physically assaulting and obstructing ICE in the performance of its duties is illegal, even if you think that ICE is engaged in illegal activities. The fact that the people who commit these crimes are convicted should show that.

 

[Flo]

No, it makes it clear what the central, core point is.

I've yet to see anybody even claim a specific illegal activity by ICE, much less have it proved in court. Regardless, physically assaulting and obstructing ICE in the performance of its duties is illegal, even if you think that ICE is engaged in illegal activities. The fact that the people who commit these crimes are convicted should show that.

I would have thought that engaging in illegal activities isn't exactly performing one's duty, but …

 

[AmyStrange]

No, it makes it clear what the central, core point is.

I've yet to see anybody even claim a specific illegal activity by ICE, much less have it proved in court. Regardless, physically assaulting and obstructing ICE in the performance of its duties is illegal, even if you think that ICE is engaged in illegal activities. The fact that the people who commit these crimes are convicted should show that.

Does that include the J6 protestors (AKA tourists)?

 

[Opcode]

I would have thought that engaging in illegal activities isn't exactly performing one's duty, but …

Name these alleged illegal activities.

 

[Opcode]

Does that include the J6 protestors (AKA tourists)?

That's a random distraction from this topic. Odd that you would compare a group of unarmed people who were accused (sometimes convicted) only of trespassing in a public building with those who throw rocks at federal officials.

 

[Resume]

He never said that all immigrants are rapists and murderers and criminals and escapees from mental asylums.

What a ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ joke of a reply; he intimated they were. "They're poisoning the blood of our country." He stoked fear about migrants and his idiot cultists filled in the blanks.

Meanwhile, somebody in another thread is trying to use Chicago as evidence that the US is horribly violent. Funny how that city gets used both ways!

Focus on this thead and the egregious lies your felonious dear leader told about the war zones in Chicago and Portland, used to stoke fear and paranoia and justity turning masked cowards loose in cites that didn't vote for him

ETA: I took the bait and replied to the whataboutisms and bothsideisms. I edited them out to reply to the salient points

 

[Resume]

That's a random distraction from this topic. Odd that you would compare a group of unarmed people who were accused (sometimes convicted) only of trespassing in a public building with those who throw rocks at federal officials.

You aren't real. No one is this thick. Well, maybe not . . .

No, no really, this can't be real.