Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

[Thermal]

Serious question: Why are you so dedicated to ensuring that males have the power to override female boundaries?

Serious answer that I have already given you many, many times:

I don't. I largely agree with your team here, especially in areas where nudity would be expected. The only place I hem and haw a little is public restrooms, and whether it makes sense to go gender neutral for multi occupant and provide a single gender neutral single occupancy stall or two

As I have said to you many, many times, my concern is to try to be cool with everyone. That means trans people too. But I don't think it's fair for the 99.5% of cis people to be made profoundly uncomfortable, and women should not have to bear a larger share of the concessions than men. You have made some good points about bar restrooms being a safe haven retreat area from males, among other persuasive arguments, so I'm still weighing out which side of the fence I am on.

What I have been battling ITT are the reasons presented for strict sex segregation, some of which are nakedly bigoted.

Serious question to you: do you ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ understand that yet? I don't want males in the girls showers, period. But not because each and every one of them is a "fetishizing cross dressing perv with AGP" and the other revolting justifications made. Just because nudity and personal modesty deserves the rights of the majority considered more heavily.

And btw, I never included you personally in the group I have been arguing with. Some months ago, you just changed all my arguments in your head to some ridiculous things I never said.

 

[Thermal]

It's not "looking other you expect" that's the problem. It's pretending to be what you're not, and demanding everyone else's compliance, with menaces.

I thought the fairy wings the guy who served me in Costa Coffee this morning was wearing were really cute. I'd have thought it a lot less cute if he'd been demanding I refer to him as she.

As I've said many times in response, my limited experience with transwomen is that they are entirely sincere in their beliefs. I am unwilling to call them all liars and say they are "just pretending".

But we've been through all this. You think they are all perverts. I think they are largely people with a crossed wire up there somewhere, who deserve to be treated with dignity and respect (some exceptions of course exist; some really are twisted).

 

[Thermal]

Nobody here objects to anyone wanting to look however they want.

Oh, I can point you to a lot of posts ITT where members mock and ridicule and viciously insult anonymous pictures of transpeople found on the internet with no backstory.

But one of the things that Halloween is supposed to teach children is that looking like something doesn't actually make you that thing. Did you not learn that?

I did. I was also taught as a child not to be hateful to strangers who look different than I do, or believe otherwise than I do.

I'd ask if you learned that, but the rhetoric is thick enough.

 

[Rolfe]

As I've said many times in response, my limited experience with transwomen is that they are entirely sincere in their beliefs. I am unwilling to call them all liars and say they are "just pretending".

But we've been through all this. You think they are all perverts. I think they are largely people with a crossed wire up there somewhere, who deserve to be treated with dignity and respect (some exceptions of course exist; some really are twisted).

I don't care how sincere they are, they're men. Treating them with dignity and respect would be explaining this to them. Explaining that feelings in their heads don't alter reality, and that they have no right to encroach on women's spaces or to demand such a right.

Instead we have a bunch of self-identifying "kind" people assuring them they are the most important people in the world and should be entitled to go absolutely anywhere they want to go. Then women are left to deal with the consequences.

 

[Aber]

Employers supported breaking a law that impacts millions of female humans without taking ten minutes to think of the effect... But now that it's been made clear that it's illegal, they need to have an impact assessment to see how it's going to affect... *checks notes*... the criminals who are breaking the law.

It's worse than you think.

This is a Government that emphasises absolute respect for the Rule of Law - you must follow the rulings of courts (even international ones with no jurisdiction). However, when it goes against the beliefs of a minority of your MPs...

 

[Sherkeu]

I did. I was also taught as a child not to be hateful to strangers who look different than I do, or believe otherwise than I do.

I'd ask if you learned that, but the rhetoric is thick enough.

I'd ask you: If you know many of these men 'get off' on the idea of people treating them 'as if' they were actually women, would you force little girls and boys to politely treat them that way and recite an altered pronoun than what the kids would have naturally used?

I'd then ask: Do you want kids to be whores and prostitutes to potential fetishists? Because many times, that is exactly what it is and the men themselves admit to it. (sure, not ALL the time....but so much more likely now that they all got a green light to come 'out')

Not my little girl.

I think it is child abuse and should absolutely be illegal.

Other than that, I will be polite as I can to another human who doesn't force my speech. Live and let live.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Serious answer that I have already given you many, many times:

I don't. I largely agree with your team here, especially in areas where nudity would be expected. The only place I hem and haw a little is public restrooms, and whether it makes sense to go gender neutral for multi occupant and provide a single gender neutral single occupancy stall or two

As I have said to you many, many times, my concern is to try to be cool with everyone. That means trans people too. But I don't think it's fair for the 99.5% of cis people to be made profoundly uncomfortable, and women should not have to bear a larger share of the concessions than men. You have made some good points about bar restrooms being a safe haven retreat area from males, among other persuasive arguments, so I'm still weighing out which side of the fence I am on.

What I have been battling ITT are the reasons presented for strict sex segregation, some of which are nakedly bigoted.

Serious question to you: do you ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ understand that yet? I don't want males in the girls showers, period. But not because each and every one of them is a "fetishizing cross dressing perv with AGP" and the other revolting justifications made. Just because nudity and personal modesty deserves the rights of the majority considered more heavily.

And btw, I never included you personally in the group I have been arguing with. Some months ago, you just changed all my arguments in your head to some ridiculous things I never said.

Look, you tend to make blanket statements pretty frequently. It ends up sounding like you;re much more gung-ho on letting some males into female spaces than perhaps you actually are.

It's also very frustrating that you just keep dismissing the fetishistic side of this. Not every single transgender identified male is a perv. But... in general males are pervier than females across the board. Nearly all defined paraphilias are massively more common in males than in females - like not even a contest kind of more common. Many of them are virtually unheard of in females. And males who have transgender identities aren't some exception from that - they're still just as male as any other male, regardless of how they feel about their personality and expression.

Transgender identified males have the same likelihood of being a sexual predator as other males, which is orders of magnitude higher than for females. And it gets incredibly irritating when you just keep ignoring the experiences and the documented cases of males misbehaving in restrooms.

Males who profess a transgender identity have documented themselves doing things like digging through the bin for used tampons to put in their own underwear so they'll "feel more womanly" and then posting on the internet about the erection it gave them. They share tips with each other about how you can freeze tomato juice then stick it up their backsides so it trickles out as it thaws to simulate a period and they get "bloody" undies to masturbate to. They share stories with each other about wanking in the stall while they listen to females pee. They take videos of themselves masturbating in female restrooms and changing rooms and post them for others to see, and talk about what a turn-on it is to use female spaces. They talk about their plans to carry tampons with them so they can offer them to pubertal females who are just starting their periods, and offer to teach those young females how to insert them.

Every single one of them? No, of course not. But far more than I'm comfortable with. Far more than should ever happen. I don't know how to make you understand what an incredible violation it is to know that at any moment, someone like that could be in the same room with me - without my consent, without my permission... and that males like you defend them being there. You hem and haw about whether or not making a subset of males feel accepted and happy and euphoric is more important than the fundamental ability of females to be safe and secure in a space where our dignity is rather important.

And that's entirely ignoring that letting in this set of males makes it impossible to keep out ANY males at all. So you're essentially telling us, over and over, that you're not convinced that females "deserve" to have single sex bathrooms, and that you're hemming and hawing over whether or not males should have the right to violate our boundaries if they want to.

And what extra sucks is that you then get defensive on behalf of males who aren't even here, and feel obligated to attack female posters who you think aren't being respectful enough to the pervs that we're concerned about.

 

[Emily's Cat]

As I've said many times in response, my limited experience with transwomen is that they are entirely sincere in their beliefs. I am unwilling to call them all liars and say they are "just pretending".

Look - every single one of them is pretending. They might be sincere in their beliefs, but they are literally pretending to be female. They are not - they are immutably male. And their beliefs about their inner soul doesn't change that at all.

It doesn't matter how sincerely Max truly believes they're a cat. The absolute fact is that they're not a cat, they're a human. Their sincerity is irrelevant to the observation that they are pretending to be a cat.

But we've been through all this. You think they are all perverts.

A whole, whole lot of them are perverts. Not every single one, but quite a large number of them. Enough that there's a decent chunk of transsexuals who call them out for being pervs.

My view is that any male that imposes themselves on females in intimate spaces - including restrooms - is a perv. Any male that uses intimidation, coercion, or threat of temper tantrum to force females to tolerate their presence without permission is being a pervert.

I think they are largely people with a crossed wire up there somewhere, who deserve to be treated with dignity and respect (some exceptions of course exist; some really are twisted).

Crossed wire? Sure. Anyone who sincerely believes they're something that they categorically cannot be has a crossed wire. There's a term for that, we call it a delusion - a false belief.

But they still deserve to be treated with dignity and respect in most aspects of life. They don't, however, merit females having to surrender our boundaries in order to affirm their false beliefs. Females deserve dignity and respect as well.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I was also taught as a child not to be hateful to strangers who look different than I do, or believe otherwise than I do.

What are your thoughts on the hordes of males who show proudly wear their shirts and pins advocating for violence against females who won't give way to their wants? Do you have the same level of castigation toward those who opine publicly that females who oppose males in female spaces should be killed, decapitated, punched, raped, etc?

Where's your criticism directed at posters here on ISF who label us transphobic bigots for wanting to keep males out of female spaces and sports? I don't think I've ever seen you give any of them a hard time.

 

[smartcooky]

Nobody here objects to anyone wanting to look however they want.

Indeed, that has been the whole point and theme running throughout this thread. The trans allies think were all bigots a f tranny-bashers who object to how transgender identified males dress, when we collectively have zero objection to that, and that what we really object to is being bullied into playing along with their fetish.

But one of the things that Halloween is supposed to teach children is that looking like something doesn't actually make you that thing. Did you not learn that?

The perfect riposte... I'm guessing @Thermal didn't think his snarky comment would backfire on him so spectacularly.

 

[Rolfe]

Every single one of them is not filming their behaviour and posting the results on the internet, sure. What proportion of them are simply not documenting their behaviour? Nobody knows.

The relatively small proportion who are effeminate homosexual men, like Blaire White, aren't doing this. Their behaviour is offensive for other reasons. But the heterosexual ones? I wouldn't absolve a single one of them.

It's certainly likely that not every such man is being quite so gross as the descriptions EC reported. We know some of them simply get off on sitting in women's company doing things they consider to be womanly. But even so. Most women don't want a man sitting in their knitting circle getting off on being there and storing up masturbatory fantasies either.

 

[Rolfe]

Indeed, that has been the whole point and theme running throughout this thread. The trans allies think were all bigots a f tranny-bashers who object to how transgender identified males dress, when we collectively have zero objection to that, and that what we really object to is being bullied into playing along with their fetish.

The perfect riposte... I'm guessing @Thermal didn't think his snarky comment would backfire on him so spectacularly.

I don't know about that. I'm getting a lot less tolerant of men who parade dressed up like a caricature of a woman. There's one at the event I'm attending right now. Lots of people are dressed in various costumes and flamboyant styles. But this guy isn't in costume in that way. He's in late middle age and wearing skirts, dresses and a stupid tiara thing in his hair. His manner is very forward and dominating, and he has a perpetual satisfied smirk on his face that I'd dearly love to wipe off.

I find him offensive because he's telegraphing clearly that womanhood is something he thinks he can put on like a costume and claim an identity that isn't his. Also because he is performing his fetish in public and getting off on making everyone in the room part of his performance.

This isn't just "how he likes to dress" as if it had no further connotations. And I do find it offensive.

 

[Sherkeu]

In an odd coincidence my male friend who is trans called just 20min ago.
Had not heard from him in 3 months or so.
He asked me to marry him (he always does) and about my shoe size (as usual). I asked what he was 'dressed up' as...haha thinking it was a funny question given it is the crossdressers dream holiday. But he was just repetitive...asking if I can go get him and move and leave the state. Then the same story about dressing up in fishnets and meeting guys who hit on him (same exact stories now, every time)
Then I heard him ask for medication at the pharmacy because he was really hurting.

I told him to go to the hospital. I think he really will go and call back in a few hours.
I met him when he was 45, but he is 65 now and cant do all those things he used to do. We were never together but I do care what happens to him.

(I have talked about him in this thread before so it is weird that I'd be here after a break and that he would also call at the same time. But it is Halloween so maybe not so unusual.)

Eta- on his way in an uber he sent me a fake boob shot that is actually hilarious. I has a giant hard nipple on it. The perversion to twist what women are is just so off the mark. he is typing now.... stay tuned.

eta2- to be clear...he agrees with me about the kids and teachers and trans meds and about not demanding speech or special accommodation... he just lives as he does where and when it is ok for him to be 'her'.

eta 3- He went to doctor.. now at sports bar as a girl. Right back into it. I notice a lot of these trans/cross persons label themselves or speak of themselves as "girls" and not as women.
-and that's all for today!
Happy Halloween everyone!

 

[Ziggurat]

I did.

And then you forgot what you learned, and started to believe men could be women by dressing as women. And that to believe otherwise was hateful.

 

[Pixel42]

And then you forgot what you learned, and started to believe men could be women by dressing as women. And that to believe otherwise was hateful.

Most women wear trousers most of the time.

 

[smartcooky]

More West Coast Kiwi humour

Log in to Facebook

Log in to Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family and people you know.

www.facebook.com

For those who don't have Facebook accounts, here is a transcript...

Greymouth Fish and Chip Shop Targeted by Non-Binarists for Selling ‘Sausages’​

​

Activists claim the name promotes “male anatomy and systemic sausage privilege."​

​

​

​

GREYMOUTH — A humble fish and chip shop has found itself in the deep fryer of controversy this week after local non-binarist activists called for the removal of sausages from the menu, claiming the name “promotes the male anatomy” and reinforces “systemic sausage privilege.”​

​

The group, West Coast Inclusivity for Edible Equality (WCIEE), staged a peaceful protest outside the shop on Thursday, chanting, “No more phallic food! Shape neutrality now!”​

​

Activists argue the traditional cylindrical design of sausages “unfairly glorifies masculine form” and “excludes diners who prefer gender-neutral geometry.”​

​

Group spokesperson Jenny Tills (they/them) said:​

“Food should nourish, not trigger. We’re calling for all takeaways to adopt inclusive shapes — something more neutral, like a patty or cube.”​

​

Shop owner Mike Roecock, who’s been serving battered sausages since 1984, said he was stunned by the complaint.​

“It’s a sausage, mate. Comes in a pack. You fry it, you eat it. If people are getting turned on or offended by that, that’s on them, not me.”​

​

The activists have formally proposed renaming the item to “Protein Tubes.”​

​

Council spokesperson Bruce Dapples confirmed the complaint will be reviewed, saying:​

“We take all concerns seriously, especially when they involve the intersection of shape, symbolism, and supper.”​

​

Locals, however, were less diplomatic.​

“Next they’ll be coming for the battered savs and saying the chips are too straight,” said one customer, dipping a hotdog in sauce with quiet defiance.​

​

As of press time, the protest had disbanded after a strong westerly wind blew over the “End Sausage Supremacy” banner — scattering tofu snacks across the pavement.​

 

[theprestige]

"Protein tubes."

 

[Rolfe]

Most women wear trousers most of the time.

Yeah. If a man wore what I'm wearing he'd just be clocked as a regular guy and nobody would bat an eyelid. Whereas I'm clocked as a regular woman and nobody bats an eyelid.

I suppose that's part of the reason the LARPing men dress up in caricature clothes few women would wear on a daily basis. Nobody would notice what they were trying to do otherwise.

 

[Rolfe]

Don't click on the video unless you have a very strong stomach.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1984363875924656611

This guy is being upfront about it. Most of them aren't.

 

[Thermal]

And then you forgot what you learned, and started to believe men could be women by dressing as women. And that to believe otherwise was hateful.

Since I have said directly and dear God repeatedly that I not only don't think that, but have gone into considerable detail about how I don't think that, what's your excuse for lying about my position? Are you going with "words are hard", or relying on your psychic powers, or what?