The Electric Revolution

[acbytesla]

I think it's a reasonable point. I haven't seen anything about not draining the battery regularly, but then I haven't read every word of the bumph that came with it. There's no doubt that LFP batteries are pretty robust, and it's also true that there are built-in protections, but maybe it is wise to be a little more cautious.

Nobody is going to be charging their EV up when it gets to 50%, that's for sure. It's bonkers. Especially as it is recommended not to charge NMC batteries above 80% routinely, and everybody is advised to unplug at 80-85% on a DC charger and get going because the top of the charging curve is so slow. What would your range be? 50 miles? People who know their cars and can calculate their range regularly drive below 10%. They seldom leave the cars there for any length of time though, because obviously you want to get on, or at least you want the car ready for next day or even an unexpected trip. So I'm not sure why I should treat my home battery any different.

Yeah, I know the charging slows down a lot as it gets closed to full.

Your story about the Tesla driver only having 50% SOH in a 2018 car is not credible unless there was something very wrong with that battery. These cars have a battery warranty of eight years, that triggers if the SOH falls below 80%. YouTube is crawling with people looking at old cars and being amazed by how well the batteries have stood up. Even old Leafs, which are notorious for degradation as they didn't have thermal management. I have never heard of an EV with a battery SOH as low as 50%.

You can go on the Out of Spec Motoring YouTube channel. It's all about EV motoring in the US. I might have the year and model of his Tesla wrong. It might be older than that. Nevertheless, he told me that range is half of what it was when he bought it.

In a series of 4 episodes, 10 different cars with teams of 3 drivers race 3,000 miles from Seattle to Boston. 9 EVs including a new Model 3, a Tesla Model S Plaid Edition and a 2013 Tesla. The 2013 came in last by almost 2 days. See, the 3:04:00 point. 11 year old car with 1/3 to 1/2 the battery capacity.

.

People are already using their EVs to run their houses. Leafs are particularly favoured for this. VtG is going to see cars partially charged and discharged a lot as their batteries are used to buffer the grid. There is honestly nothing to worry about. The issue about old EVs (Leafs, Zoes and the like) is that they were built with small batteries and people want more than that now that it is available. Not that these batteries are spectacularly less capable than they were when they were new. Yes there is some degradation, and yes this is more of a worry when you only had 90 miles of range to start with, but imagine a car with 300 miles of range. Its battery is technically "end of life" when it reaches 80% SOH.
But it still has 240 miles of range? Would you think that car was useless? But the fact is that even today's batteries aren't getting down to 80% SOH in their first ten years, and this is only going to get better.

Of course not.

But now, update on my home battery. I set it to export with an export limit of 10%. And it went right on exporting until it hit 5%, which is as low as it wants to go under normal circumstances. I have no idea why this was. It usually does what it's told, but not this titime.

Good luck with that.

 

[acbytesla]

That is obviously a DC charger, and possibly not just a basic 50 kw one either. If you were prepared to tell me where it is I could check it out on ZapMap for you. If you don't want to say in a public post, DM me the location.

Castle Rock, Washington

 

[Rolfe]

Castle Rock, Washington

OK, got it. A fairly common type of set-up for rural villages.

There are three actual chargers. One is a 7 kw AC unit, for the use of anyone who is in town for a while and just wants to pick up a bit of charge while they're there, or anyone who can leave the car overnight to get a more usable amount of charge. You're probably not that interested in that one.

The other two are DC chargers, each with two plugs, a CHAdeMO and a CCS1. I don't know much about CCS1, that seems to be a US thing, we use CCS2. But presumably it's what's fitted to US cars. One of the two is 50 kw and the other is 175 kw. Both of these would serve your purpose, and in particular the 175 kw one would charge most cars pretty swiftly. I imagine that was the one that got the car you mentioned from 10% to 80% in an hour.

I am not seeing any pricing information. The chargers are showing as unknown status at the moment, but that's par for the course with ZapMap for rural chargers that aren't used frequently.

If that is only three miles from you, you are absolutely sorted. Even if a charger occasionally goes down, well there are two, and you can keep an eye on ZapMap or similar (ZapMap isn't the best for up-to-the-minute availability) to see when is the best time to go.

 

[acbytesla]

OK, got it. A fairly common type of set-up for rural villages.

There are three actual chargers. One is a 7 kw AC unit, for the use of anyone who is in town for a while and just wants to pick up a bit of charge while they're there, or anyone who can leave the car overnight to get a more usable amount of charge. You're probably not that interested in that one.

The other two are DC chargers, each with two plugs, a CHAdeMO and a CCS1. I don't know much about CCS1, that seems to be a US thing, we use CCS2. But presumably it's what's fitted to US cars. One of the two is 50 kw and the other is 175 kw. Both of these would serve your purpose, and in particular the 175 kw one would charge most cars pretty swiftly. I imagine that was the one that got the car you mentioned from 10% to 80% in an hour.

I am not seeing any pricing information. The chargers are showing as unknown status at the moment, but that's par for the course with ZapMap for rural chargers that aren't used frequently.

If that is only three miles from you, you are absolutely sorted. Even if a charger occasionally goes down, well there are two, and you can keep an eye on ZapMap or similar (ZapMap isn't the best for up-to-the-minute availability) to see when is the best time to go.

Thanks. The DC charger there was added less than 2 years ago. I'll check out ZapMap. Might be 5 miles away.

 

[acbytesla]

Wikipedia on CCS1 and CCS2.

The Combined Charging System (CCS) is a charging station standard for plug-in electric vehicles that uses the Combo 1 (CCS1) or Combo 2 (CCS2) connectors, which are extensions of the IEC 62196 Type 1 and Type 2 alternating current (AC) connectors, respectively, each with two additional direct current (DC) contacts to allow high-power fast charging. CCS chargers can provide power to electric vehicle batteries at up to 500 kW (max. 1000 V and 500 A),[1] and in response to demands for even faster charging, 400 kW CCS chargers have been deployed by charging networks and 990 kW CCS chargers have been demonstrated.

Combined Charging System - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Dabop]

Wikipedia on CCS1 and CCS2.

CCS1 is basically obsolete and rarely found in most countries- CCS2 Combo is what is found almost everywhere (except the US)

DC charging has vehicle limits (as does AC charging) and varies by make and model- the charger rating is the maximum it is capable of outputting- so don't assume every EV will be capable of utilising it to its fullest....

 

[acbytesla]

CCS1 is basically obsolete and rarely found in most countries- CCS2 Combo is what is found almost everywhere (except the US)

DC charging has vehicle limits (as does AC charging) and varies by make and model- the charger rating is the maximum it is capable of outputting- so don't assume every EV will be capable of utilising it to its fullest....

Almost all the manufacturers in the North American market are phasing out CCS and moving to the NACS(North America Charging Standard). A Tesla originated standard.

 

[Rolfe]

Which is bonkers, because that's what everyone else is standardising on, including Tesla outwith the USA, but there you go.

 

[Rolfe]

Thanks. The DC charger there was added less than 2 years ago. I'll check out ZapMap. Might be 5 miles away.

The 50 kw and the 175 kw are both DC. Not many cars these days can't top 50 kw at the fastest point of their charging curve. Including mine, which can hit 80 kw, so even I would go for the 175 kw unit if it was available, but to be honest even the 50 kw one would be adequate. You're not on a road trip.

 

[Dabop]

Almost all the manufacturers in the North American market are phasing out CCS and moving to the NACS(North America Charging Standard). A Tesla originated standard.

That's a pretty small market lol and restricts them from export markets without changing them...

(ironically one of trumps complaints is that 'nobody buys US made stuff'- well yeah- because most of the world doesn't use your 120v electricity, most of the world uses CCS2 Combo instead of the tesla proprietary one for their EVs and as I said- CCS1 is already obsolete in the rest of the world anyway...)

So the US is (as usual) throwing its weight around and demanding that everyone else change things to suit them....

Sadly (for the US) under trump- that 'demanding' has become totally ignored- no-one gives two hoots what 'the USA wants' anymore....

In fact a standard proposed by musk is likely to get even more blowback than it would had it been anyone else in the US putting it forward- simply because (like trump himself) nobody wants anything to do with him any more- as evidenced by massively declining sales worldwide, at a time when every other EV manufacturer has their sales booming....

But then, most of the world isn't exactly fond of fascists...


As was shown in Germany lol

https://www.yahoo.com/news/huge-image-musk-nazi-salute-214027626.html
Tesla 'might' be able to recover if they dumped him as CEO- but thats not gunna happen...

 

[acbytesla]

I really don't think it matters. The only significant change from a manufacturer perspective is the plug

 

[acbytesla]

The 50 kw and the 175 kw are both DC. Not many cars these days can't top 50 kw at the fastest point of their charging curve. Including mine, which can hit 80 kw, so even I would go for the 175 kw unit if it was available, but to be honest even the 50 kw one would be adequate. You're not on a road trip.

I'm also pretty sure they are both 50kw DC. But still verifying

 

[lionking]

All of this talk about solar panel efficiency is interesting (not at all really) but one of the renewable energy challenges in Australia is the conflict in rural towns over wind turbines. Fed by conservatives like the National (ex Country) Party.

Bullying, harassment, intimidation: Shocking backlash for farming families who welcome renewables

Across Australia, the drive to ramp up renewables is dividing communities.

www.theage.com.au

Australia has a lot of space, sun and wind. Some farmers are keeping their farms alive by allowing turbines to be placed on their farms for payment of $A30k per year. Locals without the ability to do the same have turned on their neighbours in a really un-Australian way.

I can only hope State governments support these farmers.

Of course the usual ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ about health impacts on people are being peddled, even when these turbines are over 10km away.

I am ashamed of these critics. They must know that without investment in these power projects their towns will soon die.

 

[Dabop]

I really don't think it matters. The only significant change from a manufacturer perspective is the plug

Actually, no...
It usually means a completely revamped charge control 'box' as there is digital data involved, and the various plugs don't all use the same data standards....

Some are similar, and adapters can be easily made- others are completely different, and require an adapter to basically be its own 'smarts' as well- taking in the datastream from one, reinterperating it into the other and then sending it off, then doing the same with any replies....

These 'can' sometimes be found (if the market is large enough to warrant making them) but pricey (as you effectively need a controller that understands BOTH protocols)- and some manufacturers use proprietary ones that need companies to pay a fee to even get information about their protocols (coughs- Tesla...)

So re-engineering a 'rest of the world' car to US standards (or the reverse) isn't exactly a trivial (or cheap) exercise.... ironically despite Tesla getting the US to use their proprietary connector for the 'US standard'- in the rest of the world, it was Tesla that caved and converted to CC2 Combo LOL- all the Tesla's manufactured outside the US don't use the Tesla one, but CCS2.....

 

[Dabop]

All of this talk about solar panel efficiency is interesting (not at all really) but one of the renewable energy challenges in Australia is the conflict in rural towns over wind turbines. Fed by conservatives like the National (ex Country) Party.

Bullying, harassment, intimidation: Shocking backlash for farming families who welcome renewables

Across Australia, the drive to ramp up renewables is dividing communities.

www.theage.com.au

Australia has a lot of space, sun and wind. Some farmers are keeping their farms alive by allowing turbines to be placed on their farms for payment of $A30k per year. Locals without the ability to do the same have turned on their neighbours in a really un-Australian way.

I can only hope State governments support these farmers.

Of course the usual ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ about health impacts on people are being peddled, even when these turbines are over 10km away.

I am ashamed of these critics. They must know that without investment in these power projects their towns will soon die.

We got that around here- there's a sign literally just down the road on one of the local morons properties saying 'no solar, no wind'

What is ironic is that his house is supplied by offgrid solar- and his neighbour has a wind powered water bore pump (the good old Southern Cross windmill)- that he uses to get water from even...

Bloody hypocrite.....

(and I feel comfortable saying he's a bloody moron- because he is one of the antivax posters that got themselves banned from the local Facebook group- after several of their members made the news in a REALLY bad way a few years back.... you may have heard of the Tara cop killers??? the sovcit ones- he's a member of their group too..... sadly there's a LOT of rural types being groomed by these sovcit/nationalist parties)

This is from another of their group that was banned, begged to be unbanned and is now spamming this ◊◊◊◊ over the group again- another banning coming up again soon I suspect lol

Completely sane and not at all unhinged.....
NOT.....

 

[Rolfe]

I remember on my first long road trip in my MG4 there was a bit of a queue at the Stafford Ionitys. Drivers were chatting as they waited, and the guy in front of me was in a Tesla. Nothing unusual about that, Teslas routinely use non-Tesla chargers if there isn't a supercharger close by.

But then he got a plug. I don't know why I was standing beside him, maybe I wandered over when I realised he was having difficulty. Anyway, there he was, clutching a CCS2 plug and staring bemusedly at a Tesla proprietary charging port. After a minute or two he gave up and drove away and I got the plug.

I know from watching Dave Takes It On that older Teslas only have the Tesla port and need an adapter, which Dave (who has a 2019 Tesla) has. I also know from using them a lot that all Superchargers in Britain have both CCS2 and Tesla proprietary plugs, which makes me wonder about the point of the latter. But what has intrigued me ever since is how come that guy at Stafford didn't know he wouldn't be able to use an Ionity without an adapter.

The US and its penchant for non-standard "standards" is an international joke. As a biochemist I have had to avoid using US texts all my professional life because of their refusal to move to SI units when everyone else did in the 1970s. An anaesthetist colleague (decades ago) told me about the USA convening a conference to agree on a standard for colour coding of anaesthetic gas cylinders. She said the actual objective was to get the rest of the world to agree to adopt the US standard, which it refused to do because there was an issue with people with red/green colour blindness being liable to mix up the codes. So the rest of the world agreed on a different, better standard, and the USA refused to adopt this and carried on with its own way of working.

Wasn't there an issue with an early iteration of the Hubble Space Telescope because the US team insisted on working in feet and inches while everyone else was working in the metric system, which introduced a conversion error that meant the telescope initially couldn't be focussed? You couldn't make it up.

 

[Rolfe]

We got that around here- there's a sign literally just down the road on one of the local morons properties saying 'no solar, no wind'

What is ironic is that his house is supplied by offgrid solar- and his neighbour has a wind powered water bore pump (the good old Southern Cross windmill)- that he uses to get water from even...

Bloody hypocrite.....

(and I feel comfortable saying he's a bloody moron- because he is one of the antivax posters that got themselves banned from the local Facebook group- after several of their members made the news in a REALLY bad way a few years back.... you may have heard of the Tara cop killers??? the sovcit ones- he's a member of their group too..... sadly there's a LOT of rural types being groomed by these sovcit/nationalist parties)

This is from another of their group that was banned, begged to be unbanned and is now spamming this ◊◊◊◊ over the group again- another banning coming up again soon I suspect lol
View attachment 65193
Completely sane and not at all unhinged.....
NOT.....

I'm not keen on digital ID myself, to some extent because it appears that people will be allowed to falsify their sex on these so what is even the point, but that is unhinged. It took me at minute to realise that "convid" wasn't an accidental mis-spelling.

 

[Rolfe]

I'm also pretty sure they are both 50kw DC. But still verifying

ZapMap is usually right, and I have some doubts that the car with the 70 kwh battery could have got from 10% to 80% in an hour on a 50 kw unit.

By the way, I do watch the Out of Spec channels from time to time, which is why I have some idea what you guys are up against. But a Tesla which has a battery SOH of only 50% is extremely unusual, possibly unique, and has something seriously wrong with it. Probably even a warranty issue. Even that elderly Leaf in the video I posted had 75% when the owner decided to replace its battery, and Leafs are notorious for battery degradation.

 

[acbytesla]

ZapMap is usually right.

I guess I'm skeptical because the two higher power chargers were installed at the same time 2 years ago. The 7kw charger has been there for longer. And I downloaded a few different charger map applications and they show them both as 50kw. But they may be crap apps. Hard to tell. But if one is actually 175kw, that makes a monster difference.

 

[acbytesla]

The problem in the US is that Tesla dominates the fast charging market. Their chargers are almost a monopoly. They also almost always works. Which isn't necessarily true with a lot of chargers.