Does 'rape culture' accurately describe (many) societies?

Poem said:
We know because the UK wants to tighten up the process of preventing access to such material. That is the gist of that Guardian article..
...snip...
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No - what the gist was is that some people want to impose the BBFC certification of offline porn onto online porn.
 
Matthew Best said:
I'm not really involved in this discussion, but I saw this article linked by Popbitch and thought it might interest people here:

Inside the grubby world of the goon squad
Gen Z wankers

I read it with increasing levels of surprise, shock and astonishment. It's all rather dystopian and disturbing. As such I feel you will all find it as fascinating as I did.
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Granted, day-in-the-life TikToks or unboxing videos won’t poison your soul to precisely the same degree as gooner porn. But it’s hard not to see goonerism as just an intensification, almost a burlesque, of prevailing cultural trends. Pornosexuals are clearly not the only people out there in the process of retreating from life. It’s probably more useful to think of a company like Aylo—the owner of Pornhub and most of the other major tube sites, as well as most of the name-brand porn studios—as just another large tech-entertainment giant, like Meta, Netflix, or FanDuel. From these companies’ perspective, the ideal consumer would do literally nothing but goon, lose at gambling, and maybe watch other people play video games. You can try to fight this. You can read a book, pet a dog, buy a stupid box to lock away your phone. You can make a joke about the box, about the absurdity of your need for it. What do these companies care? They’ve won. If they have their way—and they usually do—in time we will all be gooners, of a kind.
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i agree with the conclusion, by focusing on porn you're missing the forest for the trees
 
Matthew Best said:
I'm not really involved in this discussion, but I saw this article linked by Popbitch and thought it might interest people here:

Inside the grubby world of the goon squad
Gen Z wankers

I read it with increasing levels of surprise, shock and astonishment. It's all rather dystopian and disturbing. As such I feel you will all find it as fascinating as I did.
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Bunch of wankers if you ask me!

Slightly more serious: There are billions of humans on the planet, any kink possible will be found in that large of a number of humans.
 
Darat said:
No - what the gist was is that some people want to impose the BBFC certification of offline porn onto online porn.
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I think you are still missing the point that you do want to ban porn...some porn - porn that you describe as abhorrent. Posters here have been defending such material. You are essentially describing the US (on this issues at least) as a pariah state.

Yes of course the Channel 4 documentary wasn't showing any explicit footage - my point was that they would not have made it if the material was not available on the net in the UK.

Sure, there may be issues with the BBFC, but your:
It is a very crafty bit of via the backdoor wholesale removal of most porn for UK based folk.

is misleading.

Are you denying the following is accurate:

Tracey Sweet:
The young girl fantasy is one that's played out a lot - there is a huge market for it. And we're going to do what the market wants.
Benjamin Nolot:
Be honest - how old are you made to look?
Tracey Sweet:
As young as possible - and I can look pretty freaking young.

Sweet affirms that the market is huge.
 
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How was my comment misleading? It is what will happen if that group get their way.

Poem said:
I think you are still missing the point that you do want to ban porn...some porn - porn that you describe as abhorrent. Posters here have been defending such material.
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I've not seen anyone do that.
Poem said:
You are essentially describing the US (on this issues at least) as a pariah state.
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And? Many countries have different standards etc than the UK.
Poem said:
Yes of course the Channel 4 documentary wasn't showing any explicit footage - my point was that they would not have made it if the material was not available on the net in the UK.
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Why wouldn't they have done - she became an international story.
Poem said:
Sure, there may be issues with the BBFC, but your:
It is a very crafty bit of via the backdoor wholesale removal of most porn for UK based folk.

is misleading.
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Why - it is what will happen if the group gets what they want.
Poem said:
Are you denying the following is accurate:

Tracey Sweet:
The young girl fantasy is one that's played out a lot - there is a huge market for it. And we're going to do what the market wants.
Benjamin Nolot:
Be honest - how old are you made to look?
Tracey Sweet:
As young as possible - and I can look pretty freaking young.

Sweet affirms that the market is huge.
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I don't know, but not seeing what the issue is, what does it matter if the market is huge, small or indeterminate for illegal content? Another example - there is an apparently huge market in the UK for drugs that we class as illegal, does that mean we make them legal on that bases?
 
Darat said:
I've not seen anyone do that.
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I think the closest to that was someone saying that it makes sense for younger sexually active people to be interested in porn featuring people who look their age.

I think the idea was also ventured that it's possible that material created from whole cloth (no real actors at all) could be a morally acceptable outlet for people who are stuck with that condition. But even if that's true I don't think it'd be ideal to have that implemented as a 'self medicating' kind of deal where they just go look for it on the internet.

That whole can of worms is one I personally won't approach except to say that it tests my ability to pit my 'does it harm anyone?' metric vs my 'disgust' reaction. Not least because I'm not clear on the harms/risks/etc; it feels like there's an argument to be made in both directons and I honestly don't want to get deep enough into it to have a more informed opinion.

Either way, that's one where I'm happy to err on the side of 'let's work on getting rid of this stuff.'
 
I belive part of it is apparently your sexual attraction in regards to what you find sexually attractive can be quite set by the time you become an adult, and that can include the apparent age of people you find the most sexually attractive. So if you lusted over a 20 year old K-POP star when you were 14 you will probably still lust over a 20 year old K-Pop star when you are 24 not a 30 year old K-Pop star because you find 20 year olds the most sexually attractive.

There are a lot of uncomfortable truths we have to face if we want to understand such things as sexual attraction.
 
Lithrael said:
I think the closest to that was someone saying that it makes sense for younger sexually active people to be interested in porn featuring people who look their age.
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i said that and stand by that statement. and i don’t recall poem trying to dispute it’s normal for an 18 year old to be attracted to an 18 year old
 
Darat said:
How was my comment misleading? It is what will happen if that group get their way.
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What will work better?
Darat said:
I've not seen anyone do that.
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Looking back it does appear that nobody has said so explicitly. I could ask. I think we can assume that US society, in general, approves of what you find abhorrent.
Darat said:
Why wouldn't they have done - she became an international story.
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The notion that nobody in the UK can access that content just isn't a serious one. She has a website (and, no, I am not suggesting anyone looks). I think the central point is that the internet is out of control and essentially telling the UK and its laws to just ---- ---.
Darat said:
Why - it is what will happen if the group gets what they want.
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There won't be a painless option if you want to ban porn - which you do....some porn. Myriad lambasted me for not coming up with a definition. You would have a similar problem. If Tracey Sweet is correct - and she works (or worked) in the industry - then the problem is a huge one.
 
dirtywick said:
i said that and stand by that statement. and i don’t recall poem trying to dispute it’s normal for an 18 year old to be attracted to an 18 year old
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Is content that suggests underage sex abhorrent? For example: Beyond Fantasy: Barely Legal (it only takes a few minutes viewing to get the general idea).

Another example (from The Guardian):
The documentary also includes footage of Tia Billinger, whose stage name is Bonnie Blue, in a classroom preparing to film an orgy with a group of models dressed in school uniform; the performers acknowledge that they have been selected because they look very young.
 
going to go ahead and assume you agree that it’s normal for 18 year olds to be attracted to 18 year olds since you’re trying to pivot into something else.

and i’ve already given my thoughts on the barely legal thing and you can go back and read them, not going to rehash them.
 
Poem said:
I think we can assume that US society, in general, approves of what you find abhorrent.
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I'm surprised that someone so opposed to porn seems so very ready to go on a public forum and performatively pull such gigantic assertions out of their ass.
 
dirtywick said:
going to go ahead and assume you agree that it’s normal for 18 year olds to be attracted to 18 year olds since you’re trying to pivot into something else.

and i’ve already given my thoughts on the barely legal thing and you can go back and read them, not going to rehash them.
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Your position is at odds with Tracey Sweet's who says there is a huge market for actors looking like she does: pretty freaking young.
 
Lithrael said:
I'm surprised that someone so opposed to porn seems so very ready to go on a public forum and performatively pull such gigantic assertions out of their ass.
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It's legal in the US. Where is the backlash against the Free Speech Coalition who made that happen?
 
Poem said:
Your position is at odds with Tracey Sweet's who says there is a huge market for actors looking like she does: pretty freaking young.
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yeah, probably a lot of young men interested in young women at any given moment in human history

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i suppose i could go look up a tracy sweet video on porn hub, it’s free after all. instead of imagining what she meant by that. what do you think i’d find?
 
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IDK maybe I'm just not dedicated enough with my searches but I just looked up Tracey Sweet, clicked on a gallery, and she does not look particularly underage except in one photo where she is fully clothed.

I'd definitely ask for ID though to be fair. She doesn't look like she couldn't be underage. But that is a lot of people who are not underage.

ETA: if 'pretty freaking young' is 18 my outrage is not particularly stoked.
 
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Lithrael said:
IDK maybe I'm just not dedicated enough with my searches but I just looked up Tracey Sweet, clicked on a gallery, and she does not look particularly underage except in one photo where she is fully clothed.

I'd definitely ask for ID though to be fair. She doesn't look like she couldn't be underage. But that is a lot of people who are not underage.

ETA: if 'pretty freaking young' is 18 my outrage is not particularly stoked.
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oh you saved me the trouble. so she’s a young woman who looks like a young woman, as would be expected
 
dirtywick said:
oh you saved me the trouble. so she’s a young woman who looks like a young woman, as would be expected
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Clearly you disagree that portraying over 18s as underage in porn is abhorrent; you just refuse to acknowledge that it is happening.
 
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