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Wow, UK has lost freedom of speech

Free Speech (to keep the divine capitalization) is not some universal right. It's a gift that can be taken away at any time.

In Europe the remembrance of what happens when free speech is totally removed has led the governments to set certain limits, which are still mandated by voters. US/Russia backed populist far-right parties seek to remove those so they can spew their hatred and propaganda unrestricted until they get to power. Looking at how such parties behave WHEN they get to power shows that they would then remove free speech for anyone but themselves. And the US is a good example of that at the moment.

Following the logic of our unlimited free speech prophets one should be able to advocate for the abolition of pedophilia laws in front of a kindergarten. Or hold demonstrations demanding women be brought back to being property of their husbands in front of safe houses for women fleeing abusive relationships, provided you never actually harass someone directly.
 
Thermal said:
I just filled my bag of Troll Chow and am feeling generous lately.

Will do. Seems I was remembering an entirely different movie. I googled Dogma and looks like I never saw it, and it's actually hard to view, something about distribution rights.
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By coincidence it's the only DVD that didn't get packed up when I had to move out for a few weeks, since I haven't got around to unpacking them it's the only DVD on my shelf!
 
Helen said:
Maybe, if you get your wish, they soon will be.

You keep suggesting actions for when someone is about to be, or slready has been, harassed, and possibly traumatised. Others want to stop that from happening, by, for instance, having an exclusions zone that actually excludes. I have yet to see you explain why free speech withers, if you put some distance between the speakers and the potentially vulnerable women. And surely you yourself understand the difference between them and politicians, or the police? (I think you'll find that Buckingham Palace actually has what you could call an exclusion zone, and a fairly extensive one at that...)
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15' distance is reasonable.

500' feet is absurd and should face judicial scrutiny. Has it?

Might as well make it 500 miles.
 
Mojo said:
Hercules56's argument only makes sense if he thinks free speech includes the right to harass.
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No, harrassment should not be allowed.

Dont need a 500' exclusion zone to stop harassment.

Might as well make it 500 miles.
 
Thermal said:
....The general public (who was also has to deal with the harassing protesters) supports this measure of curtailing free speech where protesters refuse to be civil and law abiding...
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What about the courts? Doesn't UKia have a supreme court to rule on these things?
 
Lukraak_Sisser said:
...Following the logic of our unlimited free speech prophets one should be able to advocate for the abolition of pedophilia laws in front of a kindergarten. Or hold demonstrations demanding women be brought back to being property of their husbands in front of safe houses for women fleeing abusive relationships, provided you never actually harass someone directly.
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Gross, but yes. As long as you follow existing law, including Endangering the Welfare of a Child, which is pretty broad.
 
Thermal said:
I believe they might have a King that orders beheadings of the peasants on his whims.
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Naaah, the peasantry pretty disappeared after the Enclosures.

Most of our ancestors became the industrial working class instead.

(Reading EP Thompson or JM Neeson is helpful here.)

Sorry, there I go hoying a piece of history in there...
 
Hercules56 said:
15' distance is reasonable.
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15 feet ain't ◊◊◊◊ to stop harassment, and unless you are offering the women financial assistance, that's all your 'free speech' is: harassment.
Hercules56 said:
500' feet is absurd and should face judicial scrutiny. Has it?
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They scoffed at 501 feet. I mean, what are we, a bunch of nazis?
Hercules56 said:
Might as well make it 500 miles
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I'd support not being allowed to harass women at a 500 mile radius. Might even noodle 499 miles. Somebody would have to convert to kilometers for them tho. Or we could just make up a big number. It's not like they'll check.
 
Helen said:
Why? Why is 15 feet reasonable, and 492 absurd? Why? And where exactly inbetween 15 and 492 does the speech stop being free?
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Within 15 feet (or 8 feet or 20 feet), the speaker cannot physically harm the person, but the civil and peaceful speech can still be heard. This protects the person from violence while still respecting the free speech of the protestor.
 
Thermal said:
15 feet ain't ◊◊◊◊ to stop harassment
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So arrest the person doing harassment.

Thermal said:
and unless you are offering the women financial assistance, that's all your 'free speech' is: harassment.
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All words other than financial assistance is harassment? LOL!!!!! OK bro. :dl:
Thermal said:
They scoffed at 501 feet. I mean, what are we, a bunch of nazis?

I'd support not being allowed to harass women at a 500 mile radius. Might even noodle 499 miles...
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Good one bro!! :sdl:
 
Hercules56 said:
Within 15 feet (or 8 feet or 20 feet), the speaker cannot physically harm the person,
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Betcha a dollar I could put you in ICU from 15 feet away.

Not to mention, verbal harassmrnt is barely numbed out at that distance.

Why cant you leave them alone, free of your judgemental harassment, and take up your speech somewhere where it is NOT directly harassing them?
Hercules56 said:
but the civil and peaceful speech can still be heard. This protects the person from violence while still respecting the free speech of the protestor.
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There is nothing civil or peaceful about harassing women at a clinic.
 
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Hercules56 said:
Within 15 feet (or 8 feet or 20 feet), the speaker cannot physically harm the person, but the civil and peaceful speech can still be heard. This protects the person from violence while still respecting the free speech of the protestor.
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But utterly disregarding the right not to hear the vile speech of the protester by those needing to use the clinic. Why is the right to harass others with your view more important than the right to not be free from their views?
 
Lukraak_Sisser said:
But utterly disregarding the right not to hear the vile speech of the protester by those needing to use the clinic. Why is the right to harass others with your view more important than the right to not be free from their views?
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Its not.

You guys should arrest people committing harassment and other laws that breach the peace.

Seems like you guys dont wanna do that.

How about this? Any person who engages in harassment by an abortion clinic gets a 500' restraining order against ALL medical facilities that provide abortions. Breaking such restraining order brings minimum prison time of 5 years.

That way everyone gets a chance to be nice. If they can't be nice, 500' away you must stay. Still can't be nice? Prison for 5 years.
 
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