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Wow, UK has lost freedom of speech

catsmate said:
:rolleyes:
But they are assaulted, abused, harassed and occasionally murdered. But they don't matter to you, do they?
Pathetic.
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Absurd strawman.

All of those things are crimes and should be prosecuted to the greatest extent possible.

Why don't you agree?
 
Hercules56 said:
I have called for reasonable harrassment, disturbing the peace and disorderly conduct laws to be enforced.
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Stopping people from harassing women who are about to or have just gone through a traumatic experience is reasonable.

Hercules56 said:
YOU seem to not want to enforce them, you just want to ban ALL free speech within 500' from an abortion clinic, be it civil or not.
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No I don't. I want to stop people from harassing women in abortion clinics. Abortion clinics are not that densely packed in the UK so there are plenty of places to exercise your free speech without having to get too near them.

Hercules56 said:
Abortion clinic employees are not getting an abortion. Therefore they are not in a condition of traumatized.
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You know that employees are not the only people inside abortion clinics, right?
 
Mojo said:
Presumably you would have a jury outside the clinic to decide which women were vulnerable to harassment.
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Should we just assume that ALL women within 500' of a clinic, are in a traumatized vulnerable state?

Talk about misogyny.
 
Hercules56 said:
Should we just assume that ALL women within 500' of a clinic, are in a traumatized vulnerable state?

Talk about misogyny.
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Why do you keep using the word "all"? Here in civilisation we want to avoid even some people being harassed or traumatised if possible.

Having exclusion zones around abortion clinics does not significantly affect the free speech rights of anti-abortion protestors.
 
jeremyp said:
Why do you keep using the word "all"? Here in civilisation we want to avoid even some people being harassed or traumatised if possible.

Having exclusion zones around abortion clinics does not significantly affect the free speech rights of anti-abortion protestors.
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Would you support a 500' protest exclusion zone around 10 Downing St?

Buckingham Palace?

Scotland Yard?

All synagogues?
 
Hercules56 said:
All women who work or are patients at abortion clinics, are traumatized??
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Maybe, if you get your wish, they soon will be.

You keep suggesting actions for when someone is about to be, or slready has been, harassed, and possibly traumatised. Others want to stop that from happening, by, for instance, having an exclusions zone that actually excludes. I have yet to see you explain why free speech withers, if you put some distance between the speakers and the potentially vulnerable women. And surely you yourself understand the difference between them and politicians, or the police? (I think you'll find that Buckingham Palace actually has what you could call an exclusion zone, and a fairly extensive one at that...)
 
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Hercules56 said:
Would you support a 500' protest exclusion zone around 10 Downing St?

Buckingham Palace?

Scotland Yard?

All synagogues?
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The reporting on what led to the exclusion zones is pretty clear. The protestors couldn't seem to restrain themselves from harassing women, so the government went zero tolerance. We do so over here sometimes, too. The general public (who was also has to deal with the harassing protesters) supports this measure of curtailing free speech where protesters refuse to be civil and law abiding.

Eta: if people were violently protesting on a regular basis around Buckingham, synagogues or the rest, I'm sure a similar exclusion zone would be at least temporarily enacted and enforced.
 
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Helen said:
Maybe, if you get your wish, they soon will be.

You keep suggesting actions for when someone is about to be, or slready has been, harassed, and possibly traumatised. Others want to stop that from happening, by, for instance, having an exclusions zone that actually excludes. I have yet to see you explain why free speech withers, if you put some distance between the speakers and the potentially vulnerable women.
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Hercules56's argument only makes sense if he thinks free speech includes the right to harass.
 
Thermal said:
The reporting on what led to the exclusion zones is pretty clear. The protestors couldn't seem to restrain themselves from harassing women, so the government went zero tolerance. We do so over here sometimes, too. The general public (who was also has to deal with the harassing protesters) supports this measure of curtailing free speech where protesters refuse to be civil and law abiding.

Eta: if people were violently protesting on a regular basis around Buckingham, synagogues or the rest, I'm sure a similar exclusion zone would be at least temporarily enacted and enforced.
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You guys realize that some people just want the argument, right? Lol. Like I've seen you guys patiently explain exactly what's going on, why it makes sense, and how it got put into place, but it hasn't had any affect on behavior this whole time.

I think you guys are being clickbaited. I think you guys are being trolled.
 
smartcooky said:
The process is the punishment. In cases like this there should not have even been an investigation. The first cop needs to have enough brains to read the complaint, summarily dismiss it, and tell the complainant to ◊◊◊◊ off and get a life. The subject doesn't even need to know that a complaint had been made, and no record of the complaint needs to kept.

It wasn't many years ago that, if I strolled up to the counter at a Police station and tried to make a complaint about some hurty words some other person said, I would have been (rightly) frog-marched out the front door with a stern warning to stop wasting their time.
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I have previously asked you to describe a better process for determining guilt/innocence. Your silence is telling.
 
plague311 said:
You guys realize that some people just want the argument, right? Lol. Like I've seen you guys patiently explain exactly what's going on, why it makes sense, and how it got put into place, but it hasn't had any affect on behavior this whole time.

I think you guys are being clickbaited. I think you guys are being trolled.
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To a large degree, yeah. But as skeptics, we deliver a sound rebuttal and playfully joke about the trolling right in thread. Anyone reading can see exactly what's happening in real time, and who delivers substantial arguments.

Put another way: "whatever".
 
plague311 said:
You guys realize that some people just want the argument, right? Lol. Like I've seen you guys patiently explain exactly what's going on, why it makes sense, and how it got put into place, but it hasn't had any affect on behavior this whole time.

I think you guys are being clickbaited. I think you guys are being trolled.
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No question. Some posters here have a history.
 
Thermal said:
To a large degree, yeah. But as skeptics, we deliver a sound rebuttal and playfully joke about the trolling right in thread. Anyone reading can see exactly what's happening in real time, and who delivers substantial arguments.

Put another way: "whatever".
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As long as you're good with it, I'm good with it. Some posts don't show up for me....

By the way, if you youtube (dogma abortion clinic scene) and watch it through, it's only 3 minutes, you'll get the joke about the whites of their eyes. It's a Kevin Smith movie, so it's Jay and Silent Bob
 
plague311 said:
As long as you're good with it, I'm good with it. Some posts don't show up for me....
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I just filled my bag of Troll Chow and am feeling generous lately.
plague311 said:
By the way, if you youtube (dogma abortion clinic scene) and watch it through, it's only 3 minutes, you'll get the joke about the whites of their eyes. It's a Kevin Smith movie, so it's Jay and Silent Bob
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Will do. Seems I was remembering an entirely different movie. I googled Dogma and looks like I never saw it, and it's actually hard to view, something about distribution rights.
 
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