General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 4

Hercules56 said:
You have called for racist ethnic cleansing, starvation, and extra judicial exterminations.

Sounds like Nazism to me.
Click to expand...
The IDF are fascists, the IDF are Nazis, the IDF are genocidal, the IDF are ethnic cleansers, the IDF are war criminals.
OK, does that about cover it?

Here ya go, a nice little map for everyone's edification.

Forensic Architecture

forensic-architecture.org forensic-architecture.org

Andy_Ross said:
And if the US does it the cease fire is over but the IDF can sit back and watch.
Click to expand...

I wanna see the US Marines hit the Gaza beaches using their Ship to Objective Maneuvering (STOM) equipment --
Landing Craft Air Cushion (LCAC).

And choppers. Lots of 'em. Especially Chinooks.
 
Hercules56 said:
Here is some beautiful Palestinian music.
Click to expand...
In Gaza, HAMAS generally prohibits this type of music to be performed (especially females singing).
'Music is a frivolous pursuit that detracts from a person's religious path' is their guiding principle.
The ruling HAMAS government has enforced strict interpretations of Islamic law that restrict musical culture, including music that is not religiously oriented. This has also included denying permits for events and discouraging musical performances in public. In 2016, singer Rawan Okasha was reportedly the first woman to sing publicly in Gaza in nearly a decade.

But, once HAMAS is gone from the picture, the people of Gaza can rejoice in song again!
Hercules56 said:
You're getting there.
Click to expand...
What'd I miss?
 
Hercules56 said:
Hamas will not give up their weapons.

Not gonna happen.
Click to expand...
The term that was used in the peace terms was 'demilitarised', I think that means no ability to make rockets to fire at Israel, no RPG or IE. It did not say disarm, meaning no personal weapons. I think there was a realisation that there would need to be an armed security force.
 
One of the paradoxes I think is that Israel says it won't agree to a Palestinian state because of the danger a Palestinian state might be to Israel. Yet not having a Palestinian state hasn't given Israel security. I suspect a Palestinian state would be far more responsible and co-operative than an oppressed population under Israeli military oppression.
 
Planigale said:
One of the paradoxes I think is that Israel says it won't agree to a Palestinian state because of the danger a Palestinian state might be to Israel. Yet not having a Palestinian state hasn't given Israel security. I suspect a Palestinian state would be far more responsible and co-operative than an oppressed population under Israeli military oppression.
Click to expand...
Counterpoint: Why would Israel want yet another anti-Israel Muslim theocracy on their borders? Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon... Arabs have historically not been kind to Israel, when they have their own state.

And that's before we even get to the point where Israel was actually willing to take steps in that direction. Withdrawing from Gaza. Allowing Gazan elections. There was a path there, to eventual autonomy and even sovereignty, and peaceful commerce between the two states. But Gazans chose not to go down that path. Gazans chose the other thing. And Israel responded reasonably.
 
theprestige said:
Counterpoint: Why would Israel want yet another anti-Israel Muslim theocracy on their borders? Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon... Arabs have historically not been kind to Israel, when they have their own state.

And that's before we even get to the point where Israel was actually willing to take steps in that direction. Withdrawing from Gaza. Allowing Gazan elections. There was a path there, to eventual autonomy and even sovereignty, and peaceful commerce between the two states. But Gazans chose not to go down that path. Gazans chose the other thing. And Israel responded reasonably.
Click to expand...
Lies.

Israel started the conflict with Gaza as soon as Hamas won the election.

Israel imposed their inhumane embargo and restrictions right away, without even giving the new govt a chance.

Which eventually led us to 10/7.
 
webfusion said:
Hercules56, I'm not calling for targeting of Muslim Jihadist terrorists. I'm just saying it'll happen. Undoubtedly.
You are welcome to classify that however you wish.

I have numerous times indicated my preferences for a RESOLUTION that provides a PalestineState as 'they' keep insisting upon.

|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

For the record, the body that was substituted (on purpose?) is that of Khalil Duas.
www.israelnationalnews.com

Report: Hamas gave the wrong body for propaganda purposes, not by mistake

Israeli officials said Hamas mistakenly returned a Gazan’s body instead of an Israeli hostage, but Arab sources claim it was intentional - part of Hamas’s ongoing psychological tactics.
www.israelnationalnews.com www.israelnationalnews.com

Meanwhile, around 50 remains of Palestinians being held by Israel were repatriated to Gaza today, and tonight a five-body (4+ one 'oopsy') turnover by HAMAS to the ICRC is due to occur.

If it were up to me, I'm of the opinion that Israel can start to present the ICRC with a steady flow of Palestinian bodies that have been kept 'on ice' (or temporarily interred), not just from the past two years, but including scores of others that Israel has acquired in various ways throughout the West Bank & Gaza.
It would be a show of unilateral goodwill by the Israelis, which might be well-received in the current environment.

Trading corpses and bones is never a subject that is easy to discuss and really shouldn't turn into a game of 'chicken'
Click to expand...


It's not the killing of Hamas members that concerns me. It's the fact that you don't seem to be drawing any difference between them and the majority of the Gazan population that have done nothing wrong except be born in the Gaza strip, and the uttter indifference (at best) to massive civilian casualties.

And threatening to hold up aid because of hostage bodies is pretty obscene. There's not even a figleaf of operational needs, or preventing supplies getting to HAMAS. It's also just destroyed the justification for preventing aid entering Gaza during the conflict.
 
jimbob said:
It's not the killing of Hamas members that concerns me. It's the fact that you don't seem to be drawing any difference between them and the majority of the Gazan population that have done nothing wrong except be born in the Gaza strip, and the uttter indifference (at best) to massive civilian casualties.

And threatening to hold up aid because of hostage bodies is pretty obscene. There's not even a figleaf of operational needs, or preventing supplies getting to HAMAS. It's also just destroyed the justification for preventing aid entering Gaza during the conflict.
Click to expand...
Indeed, blocking the aid is clearly just a punishment, totally unrelated to fighting the war.

What kind of sick, twisted, sadistic mind thinks it's okay to reduce food to 2 million people because a bunch of dead bodies has not been returned??
 
Hercules56 said:
What kind of sick, twisted, sadistic mind thinks it's okay to reduce food to 2 million people because a bunch of dead bodies has not been returned??
Click to expand...
Remember that the daily aid requirements are about 600 truckloads a day. For nearly 3 months there was none, then for the last 3 months averaging about 5% of the requirement.
 
600 truckloads a day seems like the kind of thing that could only be accomplished with open borders, unimpeded travel, and robust commercial activity throughout the region. The only way to get that kind of volume to Gazans is to either get Gazans out of the war zone, or to have it stop being a war zone.
 
Are there any other type of 'bodies' other than dead ones?

Hamas claims it has now "returned all deceased hostages in our possession"​


In other words, their end of the bargain is apparently done.
 
theprestige said:
600 truckloads a day seems like the kind of thing that could only be accomplished with open borders, unimpeded travel, and robust commercial activity throughout the region. The only way to get that kind of volume to Gazans is to either get Gazans out of the war zone, or to have it stop being a war zone.
Click to expand...
However there was more aid that could have gone in, but which Israel blocked. And what there was, was distributed ignoring best practice, indeed, in a manner that was known would be disastrous according to the experts beforehand.
 
jimbob said:
Remember that the daily aid requirements are about 600 truckloads a day. For nearly 3 months there was none, then for the last 3 months averaging about 5% of the requirement.
Click to expand...
Yes.

That is why Israel may face charges of genocide.
 
theprestige said:
600 truckloads a day seems like the kind of thing that could only be accomplished with open borders, unimpeded travel, and robust commercial activity throughout the region. The only way to get that kind of volume to Gazans is to either get Gazans out of the war zone, or to have it stop being a war zone.
Click to expand...
Israel could very easily build new transfer points along their VERY long border with Gaza.

Screenshot 2025-10-15 154134.jpg

I count at least 7 roads that lead straight to Gaza from Israel.

They could all be used to transfer food and other supplies, IF Israel wanted them to have such things.
 
Last edited:
theprestige said:
And there it is.
Click to expand...
Hercules56 has the sequence of events all backwards and topsy-turvy.

Tensions between Fatah and HAMAS intensified after HAMAS won the elections of 2006, and the international community increased the pressure on the Palestinian Authority (now with HAMAS as the leading party).
As a result of the HAMAS-led government's refusal to commit to nonviolence, recognition of the state of Israel, and acceptance of previous agreements, Israel, the Middle East Quartet (United States, Russia, United Nations, and European Union) and several Western states imposed sanctions suspending all foreign aid.

en.wikipedia.org

Fatah–Hamas conflict - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

On 25 June 2006, Gaza militants conducted a deadly cross-border raid into Israel. (See: Gilad Shalit)
By 2007, Fatah was finished in the strip (See: Battle of Gaza)
The whole situation between Fatah and HAMAS was totally CharlieFoxtrot.
What 'chance' would Israel have been able to give HAMAS in Gaza? Legitimate question.

In late 2008, Israel was forced to begin Operation Cast Lead.
Etc. Etc.

++++++++++++++++
(Herc, For the record, Israel has indeed built a brand-new transfer facility at ErezWest -- Zikim)
 
Hercules56 said:
Israel could very easily build new transfer points along their VERY long border with Gaza.

View attachment 64773

I count at least 7 roads that lead straight to Gaza from Israel.

They could all be used to transfer food and other supplies, IF Israel wanted them to have such things.
Click to expand...
Hamas could very easily lay down their ams and surrender. Gazans could very easily band together and pledge themselves to peaceful protest and amicable commerce with their Israeli neighbors.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom