General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 4

Israel is no longer 'at war' -- the entire Israeli effort at this point is to maintain the ceasefire. And provide security umbrellas for the troops that are stationed at various choke-points throughout Gaza ("Yellow Lines").

When I say the war is not over, that is the very definition of a ceasefire!
Violations will occur.
The remaining captive bodies will take weeks to recover, it's a painstaking process at this point.
(ICRC is doubting that all will be found, in any case).

In Israel, there are scheduled elections in another year. The 'regime' that emerges from that plebiscite is not going to be to the liking of many people in the diaspora, I will wager. (not to mention Israelis on the far left)
So what? Live with it, buttercups.

Gaza has a children problem. Their educational system must change course.
www.jpost.com

Rice urges Gaza to rethink education for lasting peace | The Jerusalem Post

“Don’t create another generation of Palestinians who believe that somehow the resistance is the way to peace and security,” Rice said.
www.jpost.com www.jpost.com
Without sweeping changes in mentality, there can be no path to true self-governance for Gaza --- Condi Rice
 
When there is a ceasefire, it only means that the IDF will refrain from offensive actions and hold positions along ceasefire lines, but it DOESN'T indicate that open hostilities won't be resumed over egregious breaches of whatever terms were agreed to.

Israel's military machines are on the move out of Gaza, with several fighting divisions (primarily Golani) withdrawing completely. The IAF is not flying bombing missions. As such, combat is no longer ongoing, and there are no currently active wartime offensive maneuvers. That could change in an instant, depending on what HAMAS does to implement the deal. (or fails to do, in the other scenario).
Other forces remain all over Gaza, in strategic defensive positions. (Yellow Lines)

Reviewing and monitoring the hostage-recovery (of bodies) operation together with MG Gen. Zamir were the Head of the Hostage and Missing Persons Headquarters, MG (Res.) Nitzan Alon; and the Head of the Intelligence Directorate, MG Shlomi Binder. Also participating in the overall assessment of the situation on the ground were the Head of the Operations Directorate, MG Itzik Cohen; the Commander of the Southern Command, MG Yaniv Asor; the Commander of the Central Command, MG Avi Bluth; and the Deputy Head of the ISA.

www.israelnationalnews.com

IDF chief: 'Our mission won't end until the last hostage returns'

IDF Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Eyal Zamir is commanding Operation 'Returning Home, says it is a 'very significant day' marking progress toward key war objectives. 'Our mission will not end until the last hostage is returned.'
www.israelnationalnews.com www.israelnationalnews.com
 
Last edited:
I suspect Israel agreed to this just to get the hostages back. Now that they are all back, they will start the war again any day now.


They just need a good enough excuse.
 
Israel is already seriously violating the ceasefire with more genocidal acts, this time cutting all aid to 50%

Why? Cuz they want their dead bodies back. Cuz 20 dead Jewish bodies is more important than feeding 2 million Arabs?

www.theguardian.com

Israel limits aid into Gaza in dispute over hostage remains as ceasefire faces test

Hamas accused of breaching agreement by withholding bodies of hostages but Palestinian militants say they face obstacles in retrieving them
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
Under what logic is Israel in any way, shape or form, responsible for providing 2-million people with food?

Even UNRWA only has about 1.34 million registered refugees (making up about 58% of the approximately 2.3 million people living in Gaza), and that UN agency is functionally and financially bankrupt.
Possibly the best thing to do is to have TheWorld™ absorb these UNRWA-registered charity cases, providing refuge and succor to them until such time as PalestineState becomes more than a figment of their dreams, and the entire kit and kaboodle of refugees (including those in Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, UK, France, Italy, Belgium, Switzerland, etc.) can begin to make their way into Gaza as it reconstitutes into a livable place.

Currently, it's really not inhabitable.
They don't have electricity, running water, waste treatment, or fuel.

I previously asked why you feel that Egypt is unable to relieve these ex-Egyptians' problems?
Maybe Sisi will decide the proper way to assist is to start a new Sinai war against Israel? (their build-up of tank forces in Sinai has been under observation, in violation of the peace treaty terms). That would be a good enough excuse for Israel's soldiers to return to open warfare, wouldn't you say?

HAMAS is playing with fire here.
(the number of missing dead is 24, not 20, not 21, not 22, not 23)

Tamir Nimrodi
Itay Chen
Eliyahu Margalit
Eitan Levi
Sahar Baruch
Joshua Luito Mollel
Tal Haimi
Arie Zalmanowicz
Ran Gvili
Dror Or
Tamir Adar
Ronen Engel
Inbar Hayman
Asaf Hamami
Lior Rudaeff
Muhammad Al-Atarash
Meny Godard
Omer Neutra
Daniel Oz
Uriel Baruch
Sontia Ok’Krasari
Sontisek Rintalk
Amiram Cooper
Hadar Goldin
 
webfusion said:
Possibly the best thing to do is to have TheWorld™ absorb these UNRWA-registered charity cases, providing refuge and succor to them until such time as PalestineState becomes more than a figment of their dreams, and the entire kit and kaboodle of refugees (including those in Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, UK, France, Italy, Belgium, Switzerland, etc.) can begin to make their way into Gaza as it reconstitutes into a livable place.
Click to expand...

Still dreaming of Nazi-style ethnic cleansing huh?

webfusion said:
Currently, it's really not inhabitable.
They don't have electricity, running water, waste treatment, or fuel...
Click to expand...
Yeah, cuz YOU destroyed their civilian infrastructure.

🔻
IDFascists
 
It is striking how much healthier Israeli captives of Hamas are than Palestinian captives of israel. Given that Israel had unlimited food and Hamas had very limited food. Etc.
 
So @webfusion : Was it ok for the IDF to be using Palestinians as human shields in your estimation? There have been numerous accounts of it, including from Israeli soldiers. Do you dispute that such a thing has been happening?
 
Hercules56 said:
Still dreaming of Nazi-style ethnic cleansing huh?
Click to expand...
From a humanitarian standpoint, it makes sense to evacuate 1.5-million away from their distressed situation.
All over the planet, refugees flee war zones. It's actually pretty common.
Why would Gazans be any different? Get 'em to a safe place, and leave Gaza to the cockroaches and flies and maggots. (With sewage treatment disabled, I can only imagine the stench of raw effluents in Gaza these days.)

It makes little sense to restrict Gazans to remain within a moonscape.
That just seems inhumane.

Hercules56 said:
Yeah, cuz YOU destroyed their civilian infrastructure.
Click to expand...

With extreme prejudice.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Hostages released by Hamas seem to be in decent shape, given the circumstances, none requiring significant physical hospital care.

Prisoners released by Israel report of starvation and torture, many requiring wheelchairs or other aid.

IDF soldiers filming themselves destroying Gaza sewage treatment facilities as their retreat.
Click to expand...
Not really. Israeli hostages released by Hamas report extreme danger, torture, and starvation, but they also report playing cards with and cooking for their captors.

www.theguardian.com

Released Israeli hostages give accounts of torture, torment and extraordinary danger

Descriptions of captivity suggest Hamas had a change of approach in recent weeks as ceasefire talks progressed
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Palestinian hostages released by Israel on the other hand report nothing but torture and torment.

www.theguardian.com

‘Cruelest forms of torture’: freed Palestinians describe horrors of Israeli jail

Men who were held in Nafha prison say they were brutally beaten, bound at the hands and feet, verbally abused, allowed to contract fungal and skin diseases, and assaulted with loud music for up to two days straight
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Hamas are inconsistent towards their captives - sometimes they're nice, sometimes they're nasty. Israelis are consistently and violently abusive at all times. So I guess they've got that going for them.
 
Shadowdweller said:
So @webfusion : Was it ok for the IDF to be using Palestinians as human shields in your estimation? There have been numerous accounts of it, including from Israeli soldiers. Do you dispute that such a thing has been happening?
Click to expand...

In my estimation, the "Mosquito Protocol" practice sped up operations, saved ammunition, and spared combat dogs from potential injury or death. "Our commanders saw how effective and easy it was.” -- testimony from an Israeli soldier who went public with his account.
Was it OK? That's for 'war crimes' courts to decide.
BTW, Israel is not a party to the relevant International Statute.
The IDF has launched criminal investigations, as required by the law of armed conflict - LOAC - but the results of those inquiries haven't been made public.

I do know that many IDF soldiers died in tunnels, buildings and narrow alleyways.
 
webfusion said:
In my estimation, the "Mosquito Protocol" practice sped up operations, saved ammunition, and spared combat dogs from potential injury or death. "Our commanders saw how effective and easy it was.” -- testimony from an Israeli soldier who went public with his account.
Was it OK? That's for 'war crimes' courts to decide.
BTW, Israel is not a party to the relevant International Statute.
The IDF has launched criminal investigations, as required by the law of armed conflict - LOAC - but the results of those inquiries haven't been made public.

I do know that many IDF soldiers died in tunnels, buildings and narrow alleyways.
Click to expand...

Thank you for taking the time to answer that question.

The world isn't any sort of popularity contest or anything, particularly when lives are on the line. But you appreciate, I trust, that this type of justification would be considered morally reprehensible by many people?
 
Last edited:
BREAKING NEWS:

Another 4 remains of Israelis are being processed at AbuKabir. (no identifications have been made public as I type this) and on Wednesday night, 4 more expected to be received.

Now that the Holy Day period has ended, funerals are again permitted in Israel, and national mourning will begin.

==================

Shadowdweller, Y-W.
There are so many issues arising from this entire fiasco.
 
Last edited:
Hercules56 said:
I suspect Israel agreed to this just to get the hostages back. Now that they are all back, they will start the war again any day now.


They just need a good enough excuse.
Click to expand...
I'm sure Hamas will provide one soon enough.

Hercules56 said:
Yeah, cuz YOU destroyed their civilian infrastructure.
Click to expand...
Military-civilian dual use infrastructure. You don't begrudge Ukraine shwacking civilian buildings being used by orcs. You don't begrudge Ukraine going after Moscow's power and rail infrastructure.

But when Israel does much the same thing, to get at Hamas, suddenly it's the most evil thing a belligerent can do. Never mind that Hamas set their own civilians up this way, precisely so they could weaponize your outrage. What's it like being an Iranian agent?

Edited by Agatha: 
Fixed color tags
 
Last edited by a moderator:
arthwollipot said:
Who mourns for the tens of thousands of dead Palestinian children?
Click to expand...

I am reminded of Golda.
"Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us."
"We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children. We cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill their children."

If you even think that Israelis are pleased with these tragic outcomes of open warfare, then you're quite mistaken.
The 20-point reboot is designed to prevent more conflict, and provide for the children of Gaza (and other Palestinians) to have a 'normal' future. That is what we need to strive for, to protest in the streets and online for.
Making it a standard practice of demonizing Israel is not the way out of this mess.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom