Does 'rape culture' accurately describe (many) societies?

[Poem]

Neither do R18-rated movies.

Which needs addressing.

Your assertion that: they do what they can to ensure that underage users don't access it - is just about the feeblest assertion possible. They do NOTHING.

Just say it as it is: they don't and won't do anything until forced and in the meantime kids have easy access to their content. Your stances forces you to deny that kids seeing such content is harmful.

I think it's a perfectly valid analogy.

And?

Last time I looked the thread was about rape culture with a focus on porn.

And I've rebutted your arguments. The only reason - if it is true, which I dispute - that children don't understand that what they are seeing in porn is make-believe is that we haven't spent the time to tell them that it's make believe.

You have not rebutted at all. Just stop suggesting that what children are seeing is make-believe. Sex is really occurring in porn. There may be edits, sure - but penises are entering vaginas etc etc...

Why don't you explain why this is a gender based problem? That is what the figures say. Boys are acting out what they see in porn on girls. Now tell the thread whether sex education is for girls only?

Because children are exposed to violent content all the time, parents tell their children "no, that's not real, that's all just movie magic" at an early age. But because we puritanically withhold from them any information about sex and sexuality, they don't understand that.

It's not difficult to figure out that no one actually died in the movie where someone got 'shot'. It is also not difficult to work out that adults are really having sex in porn and that it normalises such.

But like I said, I dispute the findings of religiously Catholic Brits for reasons that I've gone into. Children will be shamed into lying to authorities about their motivations for doing what they know they're not supposed to do.

I cited more experts than the Catholic you are referring to. Your citations are....what exactly?

Porn consumers?

 

[Poem]

How did the pro-paedophile group PIE exist openly for 10 years?

The Paedophile Information Exchange was affiliated to the National Council for Civil Liberties in the late 1970s and early 1980s. But how did pro-paedophile campaigners operate so openly?

www.bbc.co.uk

PIE (Paedophile Information Exchange ) was formed in 1974. It campaigned for "children's sexuality". It wanted the government to axe or lower the age of consent. It offered support to adults "in legal difficulties concerning sexual acts with consenting 'under age' partners". The real aim was to normalise sex with children.


Sound Investigations:

 

[arthwollipot]

Which needs addressing.

Oh, so you do think R18 movies should be banned?

Your assertion that: they do what they can to ensure that underage users don't access it - is just about the feeblest assertion possible. They do NOTHING.

They don't do nothing, there's a big splash screen when you access the site that forces you to affirm that you are over 18 and explains your and their legal obligations. Since you apparently haven't seen it, it looks like this (screenshot only, no active links):



The Terms of Service page, by the way, is huge and extensive, and takes quite a while to scroll through. And like any other set of Ts and Cs, these are legally binding. So there's my citation, the legally binding formal document that constrains PornHub. You may want to take a look, so that you know what you're talking about.

You have not rebutted at all. Just stop suggesting that what children are seeing is make-believe. Sex is really occurring in porn. There may be edits, sure - but penises are entering vaginas etc etc...

Are we really back to this now? Even the act of putting a penis in a vagina in porn is so obviously artificial and contrived. Have you ever wondered why the woman always has one leg in the air? Does anybody really have sex with one leg in the air? It's because they are required to be what's known as Open To Camera (you can look this up if you like, it's a real thing). How many porn actors are Gay-For-Pay? (That's a real thing too.) Have you ever wondered why porn penises always seem disproportionately huge, but still quite floppy? Have you ever known a real penis to be like that? I know that mine isn't like that, and I've known that for a very long time.

It's as fake as any movie magic. And when it's real, it's by definition consensual because if it isn't, it's already illegal.

And by the way, putting aside the age of the viewer for the moment, why would it being real be a problem anyway? Exactly what is wrong with watching people have real sex? You still haven't stated precisely what harm legal porn causes to adult viewers that would justify banning it.

Why don't you explain why this is a gender based problem? That is what the figures say. Boys are acting out what they see in porn on girls. Now tell the thread whether sex education is for girls only?

Sex education is for everybody, but especially for boys. In case you hadn't noticed, for the last couple of centuries the sexual dynamic between men and women has not been exactly symmetrical. Boys need to know where the limits are and the extent of consent far more than girls, though girls need to know too.

PIE (Paedophile Information Exchange ) was formed in 1974

And apparently existed openly for 10 years. That's... uh, carry the one... 1984, which is forty years ago.

 

[Poem]

Oh, so you do think R18 movies should be banned?

Off topic.

They don't do nothing, there's a big splash screen when you access the site that forces you to affirm that you are over 18 and explains your and their legal obligations. Since you apparently haven't seen it, it looks like this (screenshot only, no active links):

View attachment 64667

As I said - they do nothing. In the real world it counts as nothing.

The Terms of Service page, by the way, is huge and extensive, and takes quite a while to scroll through. And like any other set of Ts and Cs, these are legally binding. So there's my citation, the legally binding formal document that constrains PornHub. You may want to take a look, so that you know what you're talking about.

You have already referenced them.

Are we really back to this now? Even the act of putting a penis in a vagina in porn is so obviously artificial and contrived. Have you ever wondered why the woman always has one leg in the air? Does anybody really have sex with one leg in the air? It's because they are required to be what's known as Open To Camera (you can look this up if you like, it's a real thing). How many porn actors are Gay-For-Pay? (That's a real thing too.) Have you ever wondered why porn penises always seem disproportionately huge, but still quite floppy? Have you ever known a real penis to be like that? I know that mine isn't like that, and I've known that for a very long time.

So a leg in the air, not actually really gay and 'huge' penises mean that the sex is not real...apparently...

It's as fake as any movie magic. And when it's real, it's by definition consensual because if it isn't, it's already illegal.

When it's real?
QED.

And by the way, putting aside the age of the viewer for the moment, why would it being real be a problem anyway? Exactly what is wrong with watching people have real sex? You still haven't stated precisely what harm legal porn causes to adult viewers that would justify banning it.

Translated: You don't accept the reasons given.

Sex education is for everybody, but especially for boys. In case you hadn't noticed, for the last couple of centuries the sexual dynamic between men and women has not been exactly symmetrical. Boys need to know where the limits are and the extent of consent far more than girls, though girls need to know too.

Or we go with what the experts I have been citing say: boys are acting out what they see.

That is a problem right there regarding porn. And children don't suddenly stop such behaviour when they become 18.

 

[Poem]

Defence of the hypersexualisation of children by adult society.
Right here.

 

[Poem]

Oh, so you do think R18 movies should be banned?


They don't do nothing, there's a big splash screen when you access the site that forces you to affirm that you are over 18 and explains your and their legal obligations. Since you apparently haven't seen it, it looks like this (screenshot only, no active links):

View attachment 64667

The Terms of Service page, by the way, is huge and extensive, and takes quite a while to scroll through. And like any other set of Ts and Cs, these are legally binding. So there's my citation, the legally binding formal document that constrains PornHub. You may want to take a look, so that you know what you're talking about.


Are we really back to this now? Even the act of putting a penis in a vagina in porn is so obviously artificial and contrived. Have you ever wondered why the woman always has one leg in the air? Does anybody really have sex with one leg in the air? It's because they are required to be what's known as Open To Camera (you can look this up if you like, it's a real thing). How many porn actors are Gay-For-Pay? (That's a real thing too.) Have you ever wondered why porn penises always seem disproportionately huge, but still quite floppy? Have you ever known a real penis to be like that? I know that mine isn't like that, and I've known that for a very long time.

It's as fake as any movie magic. And when it's real, it's by definition consensual because if it isn't, it's already illegal.

And by the way, putting aside the age of the viewer for the moment, why would it being real be a problem anyway? Exactly what is wrong with watching people have real sex? You still haven't stated precisely what harm legal porn causes to adult viewers that would justify banning it.


Sex education is for everybody, but especially for boys. In case you hadn't noticed, for the last couple of centuries the sexual dynamic between men and women has not been exactly symmetrical. Boys need to know where the limits are and the extent of consent far more than girls, though girls need to know too.


And apparently existed openly for 10 years. That's... uh, carry the one... 1984, which is forty years ago.

The bit you failed to respond to:

I cited more experts than the Catholic you are referring to. Your citations are....what exactly?
Porn consumers?

 

[arthwollipot]

Off topic.

It is not off topic. It's a valid analogy. If you think it's off topic, report the post and let the mods decide.

As I said - they do nothing. In the real world it counts as nothing.

They are doing everything they are legally obliged to do.

So a leg in the air, not actually really gay and 'huge' penises mean that the sex is not real...apparently...

Those and the script, the set, the director, cinematographer, multiple camera operators, lighting, sound, and editing room.

When it's real?
QED.

My eyes rolled so hard I just saw the back of my head.

Translated: You don't accept the reasons given.

You haven't given any reasons! You've dodged the question every time I've asked! Once, you even appealed to the "everybody knows" argument. It's certainly a bit rich for you to call me out for not answering one of your questions.

Or we go with what the experts I have been citing say: boys are acting out what they see.

That is a problem right there regarding porn. And children don't suddenly stop such behaviour when they become 18.

Is it? I've already explained why your "experts" are being misled by children who are motivated by shame to lie, and cherry-picking the outliers that support their presupposed moralistic arguments.

I guarantee that for every boy who has acted out anything he has seen in porn, there are thousands more who haven't. It's a non-issue.

 

[Poem]

They are doing everything they are legally obliged to do.

Pornhub are morally bankrupt and should be crippled financially. You continue to deny this but offer zero substantive evidence. You are out on your own on this. Nobody here - nobody that appears on my computer screen - is supporting you.

Those and the script, the set, the director, cinematographer, multiple camera operators, lighting, sound, and editing room.

And?

You haven't given any reasons!

You haven't read through the thread.

You've dodged the question every time I've asked!

You haven't read through the thread.

Is it? I've already explained why your "experts" are being misled by children who are motivated by shame to lie,

This was in relation to finding porn accidentally - so you are avoiding the fact that kids, whether looking for or stumbling upon (see X and TikTok etc for examples) are seeing porn and acting it out - to the tune of 52% of all child sex abuse cases in the UK. Yes, that's right, most child sex abuse is perpetrated by other kids. And "reputable and law-abiding" Pornhub has normalised it for them.

and cherry-picking the outliers that support their presupposed moralistic arguments.

See above.

I guarantee that for every boy who has acted out anything he has seen in porn, there are thousands more who haven't. It's a non-issue.

See above.

 

[Poem]

Anyone else want to deny that Pornhub (Aylo) is 'morally bankrupt', 'evil', 'profited handsomely from abuse and exploitation' and should face 'crippling financial liabilities'.

Federal Trade Commission: Statement of Commissioner Mark R. Meador

 

[Poem]

You're describing a subset of porn, yes. But - and this is why education is so important - porn performers are paid actors. They're playing a role. You're not witnessing the degradation of real people, you're witnessing the degradation of characters in a movie. It's important to know this before being blindsided by it and thinking it is normal. You don't complain about the emotional violence in The Godfather, do you?

The exception to the above is amateur porn, but in this case (as long as you're finding it on a reputable and law-abiding site like PornHub or Reddit and aren't going to the illegal and malware-ridden dark web sites and this is also why education is so important) the participants have consented to the recording and distribution of the videos.

You have totally discredited yourself with this.

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

A) The business model of social media, online porn and gambling is to get users to spend as much time as possible on their sites.

B) They do not care about harm to their users except if it hurts their profit.

Does anyone disagree with (A) or (B)?

 

[Poem]

A) The business model of social media, online porn and gambling is to get users to spend as much time as possible on their sites.

B) They do not care about harm to their users except if it hurts their profit.

Does anyone disagree with (A) or (B)?

Some spend more than others on moderation.

It is true that they monetise data harvested from users, though I believe the most money is made through conversions (from ads).

 

[Myriad]

A) The business model of social media, online porn and gambling is to get users to spend as much time as possible on their sites.

B) They do not care about harm to their users except if it hurts their profit.

Does anyone disagree with (A) or (B)?

I don't disagree, but (A) and (B) are true of all businesses, online and otherwise. For instance, grocery stores are designed to get users to spend as much time as possible on-site (e.g. by putting staple items in the far corners of the store). They're also quite willing to sell unhealthy foods and beverages, not just make them available but use promotions and psychological tricks like artificial scents and preferential shelf placement to sell more of them.

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

I don't disagree, but (A) and (B) are true of all businesses, online and otherwise. For instance, grocery stores are designed to get users to spend as much time as possible on-site (e.g. by putting staple items in the far corners of the store). They're also quite willing to sell unhealthy foods and beverages, not just make them available but use promotions and psychological tricks like artificial scents and preferential shelf placement to sell more of them.

Do you think the rising number of people who are overweight and obese is related to businesses creating products and environments where people are more likely to over-consume?

 

[acbytesla]

Anyone else want to deny that Pornhub (Aylo) is 'morally bankrupt', 'evil', 'profited handsomely from abuse and exploitation' and should face 'crippling financial liabilities'.

Federal Trade Commission: Statement of Commissioner Mark R. Meador

Anyone want to deny that the Catholic church is 'morally bankrupt', 'evil', 'profited handsomely from abuse and exploitation' and should face 'crippling financial liabilities'?

You can suggest that Pornhub is this evil monster, but they are not responsible for massacres, torture, pedophilia etc and is far richer. I say start with it. Then get back to me.

 

[Myriad]

Do you think the rising number of people who are overweight and obese is related to businesses creating products and environments where people are more likely to over-consume?

Yes. Do you think all food should be banned to correct the situation?

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

Yes. Do you think all food should be banned to correct the situation?

No, but I think we should think about how unhealthy food is marketed so people don't over-consume it.

Porn is to sex what UPF is to food; cheap, convenient, and designed and marketed to make you consume more.

 

[Myriad]

No, but I think we should think about how unhealthy food is marketed so people don't over-consume it.

Porn is to sex what UPF is to food; cheap, convenient, and designed and marketed to make you consume more.

Okay, so consider what to do about overconsumption of porn. Maybe float some ideas for comment.

Meanwhile, Poem's proposition in this thread, which is the justification for his accusations against PornHub, is to ban all porn. Good idea?

 

[theprestige]

i don't really think it's practical, or desirable, for porn sites to have a strong age verification system. you don't want porn sites having large databases of the personal information required to verify age since they're pretty unlikely to handle it responsibly or securely.

Counterpoint: Much the same thing was said when pornographers were first required to keep accurate records of the identity and age of their performers. That policy has been in place in the US for about 20 years now, and there doesn't seem to have been any major fallout due to irresponsibility on their part.

 

[theprestige]

Anyone else want to deny that Pornhub (Aylo) is 'morally bankrupt', 'evil', 'profited handsomely from abuse and exploitation' and should face 'crippling financial liabilities'.

Federal Trade Commission: Statement of Commissioner Mark R. Meador

FTC commissioner is a political appointee. I don't accept political rhetoric as a source of truth on any topic.