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Infrastructure has a lot to do with if electric can work where you are. Or how deep your pockets to install an adequate solar array.

For Mexico to catch up to Norway in EV use we would need to beef up our power grids by triple to support home chargers. Local climate has another factor, northern Alaskan climate and Scotland's are different.

Solar and windfarms take real investment to get up to a level that supports full communities and states. Mexico hasn't done that yet. I hear nothing about it much less a public charger network for major metro areas.
Right now my area is landfll gas and LP generate electric with a spattering of geothermal. We could do solar well.

What you have come to take for normal we haven't seen yet. Yet where I live is quite comfortable in our current situation. Others have far less in the world.
Yes. Norway is close to if not the wealthiest nation per capita on the planet. And it is in particular, energy rich. Not, only does it have massive offshore oil from the North Sea, it has windfarms,and huge hydroelectric dams.
 
You're letting yourselves be left behind, out of sheer apathy it seems. You could absolutely coin it in with solar. I often look at the clouds here and think, what could my solar array do without these? (I know, because we have cloudless days, and it's massive.) Get off your arses and get with the programme.

If we're going to criticise an excellent source of energy because it might not work so well in northern Alaska, we might as well go back to the caves. Most of the world lives in sun-belt countries and some of them don't even realise what they've got.
To be fair Rolfe it's not apathy, it's the wealth of his country.
 
I understand that, but he is suggesting that people are just sitting back and not pushing at all to gear up for the future, maybe because "we should be content with what we have because others have less."
 
I understand that, but he is suggesting that people are just sitting back and not pushing at all to gear up for the future, maybe because "we should be content with what we have because others have less."
Sorry, I don't get that. This is a chicken and egg problem. Charging infrastructure is required before it is practical to buy EVs. And poor countries don't invest in charging infrastructure when people don't own EVs. Benotto was definitely wrong about his extreme latitudes hypothesis. But you have to understand how he got there.
 
I understand that, but he is suggesting that people are just sitting back and not pushing at all to gear up for the future, maybe because "we should be content with what we have because others have less."

No. We should be pushing to upgrade to a better system. Absolutely.
The government would have to be motivated to step up but resources just aren't being made available yet. Maybe they aren't even available at all.
Energy here is a government monopoly from oil wells to gas pumps, our electricity the same. Telephone, television and cell services are all deeply interconnected with high government offices. They really like things as they are now. Big profits.

Changes are coming but it will take time whether we like it or not.
 
Demand will drive supply. Just as it did for ICE cars and filling stations.

Purpose built stations weren’t built until 1905 some 20 years after automobiles were available (Benz 1886). Up until then, pharmacies, grocery stores and hardware stores etc had a sideline in selling petrol, which was considered a waste by-product of their main sales of kerosene. When ford made (generally) affordable cars, demand for filling stations grew in the US.
 
Demand will drive supply. Just as it did for ICE cars and filling stations.

Purpose built stations weren’t built until 1905 some 20 years after automobiles were available (Benz 1886). Up until then, pharmacies, grocery stores and hardware stores etc had a sideline in selling petrol, which was considered a waste by-product of their main sales of kerosene. When ford made (generally) affordable cars, demand for filling stations grew in the US.
This is the one thing I truly give Tesla credit for. It was a decision that gave them at least a five year lead on every other car company. The fact you could charge their cars while traveling made their cars more than a novelty.
 
What were we saying about electric cars not being anywhere near ICE as regards racing?


It's not Formula One, yet, but EVs are coming up from behind and eating the ICE breakfast in one application after another, and they ein't done yet.
It's not the speed of the EVs that is the problem. It's the range and charge speed. Formula 1 and NASCAR include multiple pit stops in a typical race. Formula 1 pit stops are between 2 and 3 seconds. NASCAR stops are between 9 and 12 seconds. You can't recharge batteries fast enough.
 
It's not the speed of the EVs that is the problem. It's the range and charge speed. Formula 1 and NASCAR include multiple pit stops in a typical race. Formula 1 pit stops are between 2 and 3 seconds. NASCAR stops are between 9 and 12 seconds. You can't recharge batteries fast enough.
An F1 race is around 300km long. The BYD Uber EV road car I rode in yesterday can travel 450km in a day without needing a recharge. I doubt recharging during a race will be necessary.
 
It's not the speed of the EVs that is the problem. It's the range and charge speed. Formula 1 and NASCAR include multiple pit stops in a typical race. Formula 1 pit stops are between 2 and 3 seconds. NASCAR stops are between 9 and 12 seconds. You can't recharge batteries fast enough.
And range. Formula E races are between 60 and 100km. 1/3 of the F1 ICE/hybrid race distances.

A road EV, which may have a cruising range of 400km+, would probably have that range sharply compromised if it was driven flat out for the 45mins of a Formula E race.
Cruising the highway, I can get less than 6litres/100km out of my current Subaru XV(Crosstrek) and expect 4.5 from the RAV4 hybrid we're about to take possession of, but put the foot down and you can guarantee that that fuel consumption will be doubled.

It would certainly sap the battery in a road EV in race mode. It would not surprise me if it emptied the battery before completion of a Formula E race as their batteries aren't built for rapid discharger. Even when designed to, initially in FE, the drivers had to swap cars 1/2 way through a race and jump into a different, fully charged car, to complete race distance.
There is currently a pit-stop recharge option - but it will cost you a minimum 30 second stop.

They have come a long way, but road EV cars (and especially batteries) were not meant to discharge under race performance conditions.
In fact, this article comparing an Audi EV to an Audi V8 claims that,
... the GT was chewing through 30 to 40km of range per lap, and Phillip Island is only 4.5km long. This gives you a useful track time of optimistically 12 laps before you need to recharge...

The BYD mentioned upthread probably has a battery designed to cope with fast discharge, but even then it is not designed for constant high speed discharge and it's advertised range is estimated from controlled cruise-speed, not sustained track racing speeds.
 
would probably have that range sharply compromised if it was driven flat out for the 45mins of a Formula E race

I don't think that there's any "probably" about it.

Further, EV's (currently) are not going to beat F1 cars in an F1 race
 
The point being, electric cars are constantly improving and are coming from behind to overtake ICE on one metric after another. It's not about present performance, it's about direction of travel.
 
An F1 race is around 300km long. The BYD Uber EV road car I rode in yesterday can travel 450km in a day without needing a recharge. I doubt recharging during a race will be necessary.
Your Uber EV was not going at anywhere near F1 speeds. If you double the speed of a car then you double the energy consumption of the car for the same distance. This means F1 cars need a lot more power than ordinary cars.

But batteries are imporving. So maybe one day an electric F1 car would be able to beat a ICE F1 car.
 
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It's not the speed of the EVs that is the problem. It's the range and charge speed. Formula 1 and NASCAR include multiple pit stops in a typical race. Formula 1 pit stops are between 2 and 3 seconds. NASCAR stops are between 9 and 12 seconds. You can't recharge batteries fast enough.
Formula 1 pitstops are solely for tyre changes, so I'm not sure how that's relevant, anyway. Formula E has pitstops too; last time I took an interest, they were changing cars to get the necessary range, but they haven't needed to do that for some years Regardless, if everyone has to do it, then the length of the pitstop is immaterial if it's the same for all. This year they've introduced a compulsory pit stop where they get a 10% boost in 30 seconds. https://www.fiaformulae.com/en/news/872603
 
It's not the speed of the EVs that is the problem. It's the range and charge speed. Formula 1 and NASCAR include multiple pit stops in a typical race. Formula 1 pit stops are between 2 and 3 seconds. NASCAR stops are between 9 and 12 seconds. You can't recharge batteries fast enough.
But you can pull a battery pack and replace it.
 
Your Uber EV was not going at anywhere near F1 speeds. If you double the speed of a car then you double the energy consumption of the car for the same distance. This means F1 cars need a lot more power than ordinary cars.í

But batteries are imporving. So maybe one day an electric F1 car would be able to beat a ICE F1 car.
No, the power consumption is vastly higher. Theoretically eight times.
 

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